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  #1  
Old 08-22-2014, 10:37 PM
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Using a Toyota fuel pump to push fuel through a 3.1 fuel rail?

Just curious if anyone had any thoughts on using a fuel pump out of a Corolla to push fuel through the fuel rail on a GM 3.1L. The Buick fuel rail is pressurized to 37-48 PSI, whereas I think the Corolla is 44-50 or something like that. I can't see that the Toyota pump would damage the fuel rail/pressure regulator. What do you guys think?

A Corolla fuel pump is pulled out from under the backseat, whereas I think you need to drop the tank on a Buick, so the Corolla pump would be easier for me to grab out of the yard. This is for an out-of-car project. I'm not trying to retrofit a Toyota pump into a GM or anything.
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

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  #2  
Old 08-23-2014, 09:42 AM
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Many salvage yards remove / drain fuel tanks so they might be out of car by now.

Fuel pressure is set by the pressure regulator and pumps have a wide range, a 100 PSI pump against a 30 PSI reg will only make 30 PSI. However some pumps have an internal blow off valve / have limited power so a 30 PSI pump won't always work at 100.

what sort of project are you making?
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2014, 12:24 PM
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both the Delco and the denso pumps in the GM and the Toyota can handle more than 50 psi pressure, The pressure is regulated by the fuel pressure regulator, in the corolla engine you dont see it on the engine because the regulator is housed in the fuel pump assembly jug.
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2014, 01:04 PM
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I'd be more concerned about the toyota pump being inadequate in terms of volume. I'd expect that it was spec'ed to supply fuel to an engine about 1/2 the size of the buick
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Many salvage yards remove / drain fuel tanks so they might be out of car by now.

Fuel pressure is set by the pressure regulator and pumps have a wide range, a 100 PSI pump against a 30 PSI reg will only make 30 PSI. However some pumps have an internal blow off valve / have limited power so a 30 PSI pump won't always work at 100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
both the Delco and the denso pumps in the GM and the Toyota can handle more than 50 psi pressure, The pressure is regulated by the fuel pressure regulator, in the corolla engine you dont see it on the engine because the regulator is housed in the fuel pump assembly jug.
Yeah, I get that the pressure regulator determines the pressure, but I didn't know if one pump would generate a significantly higher output than the other and become an issue that way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
I'd be more concerned about the toyota pump being inadequate in terms of volume. I'd expect that it was spec'ed to supply fuel to an engine about 1/2 the size of the buick
That's a good point, but in this case I'd only be running three injectors at a tie, so that's OK.
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
what sort of project are you making?
Trying to get a setup going with which I can test injectors. At first, I was thinking that I would do what some guy on the Pelican Porsche forums did and hook up an air compressor to the fuel rail (filling the fuel rail with fuel first), but I wasn't sure how it was all going to work. Then it occurred to me that -- Hey! -- I could just get a fuel pump and hook that up to the rail! I called the yard I usually go to, and the guy at the other end of the line said that I could have a pump for $35 if I pull it myself. I wasn't terribly keen on that, since (IIRC) I'd have to drop the tank to get a pump out of a Century, but then I remembered that the Corolla pump is accessed just by pulling the bottom cushion of the rear seat off and thought I should just try to get that instead.

The other side of the project (the one I still need to work out) is the electrical side. I could just pulse the individual injectors with a 9-volt or something, but it would be nice to be able to pulse all of them (or three of them, one bank at a time) equally so that I could do a flow test along with observing the spray pattern. I think I'm figuring it out, but it's slow. I've never before done anything significant with electrickery (thanks for that word, Stretch )
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2014, 07:29 PM
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There is a site called DIY EFI , search around for them, what you are wanting to has been done before.

Dig around on some parts seller web sites ( like Roc. . Aut. . ) , sometimes they list flow rates in the more info link.

The Toyota pump is probably enough.

You also will want to run a standard calibration fluid not gasoline.
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2014, 09:53 PM
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easy way is to get 6 small beakers, remove rail from manifold and test the injectors that way - you can fabricate some locking system on the injectors with some mechanics wire etc.

nicer way has been mentioned by 97 SL320
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2014, 09:54 PM
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Wow, that's a bunch of really cool info right there. I didn't even know that something like DIY EFI existed. Now I want to do something with it .

Why use standard calibration fluid over gasoline? It looks terribly expensive...
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2014, 10:27 AM
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you dont want gasoline or its vapors present if something goes awry - the bill from ER and the hospital would be quite some magnitudes higher than the calibration fluid
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2014, 10:49 PM
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That's true. And our insurance just switched to one with $$$$$$$$$$$$ deductibles without any premium decrease, so I'll try to avoid going to the ER.

Question: The car is a 1994 with Multecs, which means that there's a chance it has the sensitive exposed windings that make many cleaners unusable. Best I can tell, it appears that the problem is alcohol in the cleaner. I called the place that I got the injector seals from (they also service injectors), and the fellow at the other end of the line said that, when I do an ultrasonic cleaning on them, I could use water but should also put a touch of some sort of cleaner in to break up the surface tension of the water.

I also asked him about what he would suggest I could use for checking the spray pattern, and he agreed right away that gas would not be a good idea, and advised that I could use something like paint thinner. Wouldn't that have a high alcohol content? I was thinking of carb cleaner, but I need to check the alcohol content on that. Is there a reason I couldn't just use water to test the spray pattern? If I can use it during the cleaning, then I would imagine that i could also use it for testing the spray pattern...
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2014, 08:12 PM
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I think I'll just use water + a little bit of Simple Green to test the spray pattern.
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
I'd be more concerned about the toyota pump being inadequate in terms of volume. I'd expect that it was spec'ed to supply fuel to an engine about 1/2 the size of the buick
The same pump is used in 660cc engines right upto 3 litre engines.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
I think I'll just use water + a little bit of Simple Green to test the spray pattern.
your test would more likely be bubbly then - and the mist simple green sprays is not nice to breathe.

But its two million times safer than gasoline.
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2014, 01:36 PM
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Do you think I need to add the SG to the water, or could I just go with the water?
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1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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