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  #1  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:16 AM
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Greasing up the bendix

At 5*F today my starter gear did not want to retract, I've noticed it below 15*F but today was pretty bad. I'm sure some of you guys have regreased your starter bendix gears, looking for a better cold weather grease that is safe to use on electronics. This is on the convertible so ideally it's also okay for warmer weather once the seasons change.

Currently my money is tied up in the rx8 so I'm trying to avoid dropping a couple hundred bucks on a new starter. I think this is the coldest it will get here, but I don't want to kill my starter and don't want to grind the teeth on my flywheel. I'd take the mazda but I managed to flood it yesterday...

Any recommendations on grease or thoughts?

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  #2  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:19 AM
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In my experience starter motors do often suffer from too much muck - but this is more often than not just on the sliding parts near to the Bendix gear.

If your starter motor can be taken to pieces a good clean out with brake cleaner and the a good dry will often help. Scored commutators and nadgered (technical term) brushes are the parts that usually show the most wear.

If you do grease moving parts use a high temp grease - but use it so it is almost not there. Grease is really just more glue for muck - then you're back to square one again.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2015, 12:33 PM
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Thanks stretch. I wouldn't doubt that it's pretty mucked up. It's just the bendix gear that is giving me issues -- regular starter is strong as heck far as I can tell. I figured a good clean would do wonders but the problem is definitely part with whatever lubricant is used since it's only when cold. I don't want to just clean and use a similar lubricant that will have the same result.


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  #4  
Old 01-08-2015, 12:45 PM
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5*?!?!?!?!

It was a brisk 48* this morning at 0530 when I hopped on my motorcycle to head to work!
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2015, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwrock View Post
5*?!?!?!?!



It was a brisk 48* this morning at 0530 when I hopped on my motorcycle to head to work!

You poor soul! Must have even had to wear a jacket


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  #6  
Old 01-08-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
You poor soul! Must have even had to wear a jacket


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Actually had to layer up!

48* ambient at 45-50MPH on the motorcycle makes it like 38* with windchill!
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:02 AM
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Guys on the kappa forums are saying it's an issue with the power steering pump and the fluid being too thick on cold days. I'll be damned if it's not a starter tooth grind! Here's a video I took this morning

http://youtu.be/RR-c9R2exzw


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  #8  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:03 AM
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I have seen very good results with moly paste on the splines on the bendix helical gear and also on the flywheel teeth - engages quietly and firmly - The paste you can buy at a honda store - its what they recommend to use on the final drive line of a Honda Goldwing, its also used in assembling engines and also on brake work in Honda.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulfiqar View Post
I have seen very good results with moly paste on the splines on the bendix helical gear and also on the flywheel teeth - engages quietly and firmly - The paste you can buy at a honda store - its what they recommend to use on the final drive line of a Honda Goldwing, its also used in assembling engines and also on brake work in Honda.
Is it a little bit like the ATE brake assembly paste?

(If you've ever tried that stuff as well)
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1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



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  #10  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:02 PM
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Well the sky guys confirmed that the noise I'm hearing is the power steering pump and is allegedly normal (or at least experienced by others).


Sent from an abacus
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  #11  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:05 PM
I miss my MBZ
 
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Nevermind

I agree with Stretch above - the cause of the sticking probably isnt the grease, its the muck. De-muck the system and any grease you use will probably be ok.

On the conveyor systems I've seen - if the system was in a warehouse-sized freezer- they replaced the oil (or drained it entirely) with something low-temperature rated. If it bugs you that much, there are greases advertised as being made for low temperatures.

Next year (or later), if it gets this cold, you might be mucked up again enough to stick- not sure that better grease would solve this. I would say that this is the price you pay for not replacing the starter in the first place.

Whenever I've home-rebuilt a starter, I used wheel-bearing grease on the bendix and 'outside' sliding parts - I dont remember this setup ever giving me a problem (but nor did it often get to 0*F outside...except that 240D I drove to Chicago 8 times over a winter install project... and nor did I keep that car for more than 4 years after...)

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Last edited by Angel; 01-09-2015 at 12:07 PM. Reason: advice was not needed
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Is it a little bit like the ATE brake assembly paste?

(If you've ever tried that stuff as well)
No its not the same entirely - it is used for extreme high pressure points - the final drive in the honda goldwing (shaft drive motorcycle) is under extreme pressure and temperature when power is applied - using any generic grease on such application wears out the splines on the unit, thats why the moly paste is specified.

In brake work its specified to be applied to the back and sides of the brake pads (not the pins) - it prevents the brake pad from sticking and the moly content even works in aged and dried form.

A very old timer who used to repair starters told me about such moly paste (he called it something else because he used to work in railway). - Grease on the splines on the starter bendix helical gear will attract dirt/muck and bind.
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2015, 03:29 PM
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What about some SuperLube?

Synthetic Multi-Purpose Grease
High Temperature/Extreme Pressure Grease
Silicone Lubricating Grease with Syncolon® (PTFE)
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2015, 03:54 AM
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I'm interested in finding gucci alternatives to grease for these kind of situations - in the military I was told in dusty conditions "guns get oiled" with graphite - in damp Holland the chances of finding dust outside of your living room are small so I've always gone for grease - but broadening my thinking to other parts of the world I can imagine that grease might not be so clever.

(Sorry to carry on about the grease thing when the OP's problem is now a steering pump)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2015, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
Well the sky guys confirmed that the noise I'm hearing is the power steering pump and is allegedly normal (or at least experienced by others).


Sent from an abacus
The "they all do that" argument has always irritated me. But I won't jump on my soap box today...

...well a quick step up and a fast step back down!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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