The last REAL Mercedes.. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 06-05-2003, 07:48 PM

When do you think quality started to decline, computers took over sheer mechanics, computer controls replaced formerly highly engineered mechanical pieces, engines didn't rack up as many miles, doors didn't close with as much of a thud, and generally the association of Mercedes with "long term reliability" moved into the association of "expensive toy."

I think Mercedes has been running on it's reputation for a long time. The W115/W123 diesels that racked up so many miles with so many problems created a reputation of engineering and excellence that Mercedes has not made up as of late. They seem to still be running on the W123/W115 reputation.

Personally, I think the nail in the coffin for Mercedes was the introduction of the 190 series. It marked Mercedes as moving more towards a massed produced, less engineered, less reliable, easier to produce vehicle. I think the last REAL Mercedes was the W126 300SD 5 cylinder turbodiesel, and the 300D W123 5 cylinder turbodiesel. I think after that, Mercedes became something different.

You don't sell your audience new cars if their current ones last for 300,000 miles...

73MB280SEL · #2 06-05-2003, 08:06 PM

I've owned/driven 108, 116, 123, and 201 Mercedes automobiles. The BEST one of the lot is the 108 in terms of overall driving pleasure. The best one in terms of "last greatest" is the 116. That was a phenomenol car, save for the rust and stupid climate control system and cheap plastic interior bits.

I currently drive a 201 MB (190D 2.2). It isn't too bad a car. The only really cheap things are some plastic exterior pieces (drip rail covers) and some el-cheapo interior pieces. It still clunks when the doors shut, though and the interior is mighty fine (MB-TEX) for a 20 year old car.

Sholin

sixto · #3 06-05-2003, 08:31 PM

There is great diversity in the MB audience; from the taxi driver in Baghdad to the movie star in Beverly Hills and the autobahn stormers in between. How can one car satisfy them all? Somehow MB manages to have a diverse product line that makes them all smile. It's a little short sighted to say that the last real MB is the 300SD. I think a more appropriate statement is that the last really reliable MB sold in the US is anything with a turbo 617. The taxi driver in Baghdad probably thinks it's some incarnation of the 200D and the movie star in Hollywood thinks it's the unproduced CLR until MB comes up with another jaw dropping show car.

I think everything since the 600 (W100) has been a compromise to some extent or other... but I haven't seen a Maybach for myself.

In the affordable-to-me category I think the 109 is a little more timeless than the 108 Sholin recommended. Air suspension is what it is, but all that extra chrome and wood around the windows is must have

And none of that column shift business, either.

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

73MB280SEL · #4 06-06-2003, 10:50 AM

I agree with sixto, there is a 109 car at the local junkyard (I-35 imports). Man that chrome window trim is nice. And I do like wood windshield surround trim. I actually bought a set in pretty good shape for my car, but haven't applied it yet.

It's just that I haven't ever driven or been in a 109 car. For that matter, the best looker of the bunch would have been the 112 coupes. The early ones had the chrome window treatment, the wood windshield surround, the bumpers without the rubber insert (all chrome), and the wood veneer gauge pod trim. That's gotta be my favorite of all time. But...., I've never driven one so I don't have any experience with it.

Almost bought one though from europeancollectibles.com (a 111, not a 112). It was forest green with a tobacco leather interior. The leather and carpet was original but in excellent shape. Both the leather and carpet had that aged veneer look--not new, not worn out or torn. It was a manual 4spd. He wanted approx 15k for it. Didn't have the all chrome bumpers though.

Sholin

rickg · #5 06-06-2003, 01:00 PM

I personally think the last "built like a tank" model was the W126, but I do have to agree with Lebenz. Last car show I went to in Seattle, the ONLY cars that made my heart pound were the Mercedes. Even with the questionable reliability reputation that seems to follow the new models, given the finances, I'd pop for one over anything else I saw there made by any other manufacturer.

Hatterasguy · #6 06-06-2003, 08:40 PM

I don't think MB quality is slipping. I think it is because now we are in a transition of technoligy from mechanical systems to electronic. Kind of like the emissions technoligy switch in the early 70's. Just wait 5-10 years, I bet the engines will die before the computers. I don't get what the big deal is about electronics though, maybe because I am younger and more confortable with them. I also am good friends with somebody that is a big Mercedes fan. He owns a 1983 300SD and 86 300SDL, both with over 225K on them. He absolutily loves the 300SD. He also bought a 2001 S430 new, and feels it is the equal if not better then it's predecesors. He says it is mechanically excellent and handles extremely well.

mike690003 · #7 06-06-2003, 09:54 PM

The thing I hate the most is the massive amount of useless gadgets that auto makers put into cars now adays in order to get their cars sold. I mean, the more gadgets, the higher their chance of malfunctioning. Whatever happened to the word "overkill". This is ridiculous, I mean, heads up displays, rear view cameras,voice recognition radio,etc. All those are a waste. The last real benz was the W140. Nothing will ever be as stately as that benz. It was like a mini mansion on wheels.

albert champion · #8 06-06-2003, 10:47 PM

that is it. you nailed it.

all the gd electronic foofraw.

i own a 1979 6.9. a 1986 560sel. a 1987 560sec. a 1995 e320cab. and recently i acquired a very low mileage s500coupe.

the most reliable of all those cars are those with the least amount of electronics. also, they are the most user friendly. and they are the most honest in that they offer high amounts of feedback[road noise, wind noise, steering wheel road feel, etc].

i also want to say the the reason for holding onto the old benzes is that d-b was kind to its fans by making parts available for these oldsters. what happens in the future as d-c opens its veins to be a mass marketer is the question that i am certain is on all of our minds.

i can see deutsche bank[ the real owner of d-c] terminating these programs as unnecessary. or raising the parts prices extortionately.

personally, i never intend to run a vehicle that incorporates a televison screen as a dashboard control interface.

death to all computerized vehicles. sic semper tyrannis.

#9 06-07-2003, 02:24 AM

I am willing to bet that almost everyone claims (or wants to believe that) their model was the last of the "real Mercedes."

1990 300SE - that was the last of the true Mercedes.
* In 1991, Mercedes took away the antenna button on the dash! (became integrated with Becker radio) Everything has been downhill since!

Mike

rickg · #10 06-07-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fahrgewehr
1990 300SE - that was the last of the true Mercedes.

Mike

Ahh! See! Another vote for the W126!

#11 06-07-2003, 03:47 AM

As the owner of a W201 and W115 (both feel like real mercedes to me), I would say that the real loss of Mercedes came with the launching of the ML. My mom has one, and it is junk. The interior quality is poor and it has been a maintenance disaster. Lots has gone wrong with it over the last 3 years.

The day Mecedes made an ugly SUV with poor Chrysler quality was the day Mercedes started going down hill, IMO.

#12 06-07-2003, 07:59 AM

I dunno...I know a friend with a WRX..many horror stories there.

All I have to say is that I received my car for free, put about 500 dollars worth of work into it, and it has never left me stranded, broken down, or had any mechanical issues.

I tend to think your 300CD is the exception, not the norm to this rule of Benz reliability.

Did you have service records, did the owner change the trans fluid regularly?

All I have to say is if that "Subbies" are so reliable, why ar European taxi companies still coughing up about 2 times the price of a Subaru for CDI engined Benz taxis?

And why didn't Europeans use Subaru Loyale's in the 1980's for their taxi operations: much cheaper to buy, and apparently much better?

Mercedes W123 diesels have a reputation of reliable illustrated by the thousands of taxi drivers still using them from Berlin, to Baghdad, and so many other places.

W126 I think was last real Mercedes.

#13 06-07-2003, 08:37 AM

I enjoy my mercedes. Cost me around $3000 in total to get it road worthy (steel+H2O = disaster). Mechanically it's a beast for the simple fact that it has never had a rebuild after 260,000KMS and there's no blue smoke to be seen.

As for the real last mercedes, i'm not to informed with model numbers after about 1980, but I really like the look of a 1992 500E. that's a W12~?

73MB280SEL · #14 06-07-2003, 08:50 AM

I'll agree with the death by gadgets theory. My Dad bought a lincoln mark 8 (he's always owned lincolns) that has an auto trunk lid closer on it. I was putting some groceries in his car and he said "be careful not to slam it, it will close itself". Now that's gotta be the most completely useless feature a advertising exec/auto engineer has ever come up with. You can't close the trunk in the normal way but instead have this useless mechanism close it for you. You still got to "close" the trunk, mind you, you just can't CLOSE the trunk. Honestly, the effort required to close a trunk lid isn't that great!!!!

I thought this was just a domestic/lincoln thing, but plenty of car manufacturers do this. Heck, I think (not sure) that even an MB 600 had this feature.

Sholin (loves the simple MB's) in Mustang

p.s. All you nitpickers out there who HATE us reminiscing about the "old days when cars were built better", this IS mercedesshop.com and this IS the open discussion forum and the topic IS "last greatest Mercedes" (which would be some combination of greatest and last--after all, the gullwing 300sl would be the greatest).

Get over it...

#15 06-07-2003, 09:30 AM

I'm not going to point to a specific model as the last of the greatest of the Benzes. However, I also have to concur that the sheer mass of electronic gizmos are the problem with the QC issues of the newer Benzes. I've looked at the brand spanking new models. Nothing about them on a fit and finish, and materials quality standpoint, or the "feel" of the doors closing and what not feel any less substantial than my old 240D. However, the more you complicate the plumbing so to speak, the easier it is to stop it up.

If MB would bring us a vehicle with the content levels of the older W123 cars, I would have no doubts that the reliability would still be there.

Now as for my FAVOURITE car, the old Ponton ranks for me as the coolest Benz that I've ever had.