Stefano,
Having met you it seems like you are a pretty good dude (southern talk for a good person). I have been reading through this for a little while now and man I hate to say it but to be brutally honest I would not put too much hope on this woman and if I were in your shoes I would continue to look around and play the field. Sure date her and become closer friends as the opportunities come up but don't put all your heart into this relationship having much of a future. Personally, and again, based on the way I am understanding the reading, something don't sound right. Hopefully for you I am wrong but I don't know. Along time ago I dated a gal for about three years with nothing more than just some kissing every now (she was a good, old fashioned "traditional" woman too) and in the end it came out she was pretty much a nut case that eventually married someone twice her age because she was looking for a father figure.

On another topic - we (the wife and I) have been watching this show "Amazing Race" on tv here lately. There is a couple on there that have been dating for 12 years and are both virgins . What is up with that? In watching the show I get the impression that if they ever do have sex they will not be together for very long after that. They just DO NOT get along very well in the "stressful" situations presented during the show and in really long term relationships you have to deal with some occasional stress every now and then.

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Jim

Stefano

After rereading the posts, I think she is controlling. She may have a very good reason to do so, but she is controlling.

Your desire to kiss her is natural: Of course, you are attracted to her, you like her and you enjoy being with her. “The kiss” is a demarcation in where you feel your relationship is with her. It is a useful way to determine how you both are together. It illustrates a level of interest, or better, commitment.

It seems to me (and of course I don’t know you) that you are a gentle man. You have held back your feelings waiting to see her NEXT indication of commitment (kiss demarcation). You do not seem the type of person who is going to force him self on her. This seems to work well in concert with where she is in her life and most especially with you: She is hesitant and careful, you are hesitant and wondering.

In the dynamic of the two of you, you are waiting for her. You have given up a portion of yourself (natural wants, desires and feelings) to allow her to come forward to match your level of interest. Instead of her doing that traditionally (a good night kiss after the third date) she sends you an unusual note in the mail. It is my observation that she feels safer sending notes than looking you in your eyes and telling you how she is. There is a reason for this need for distance and safety that I believe has nothing to do with you.

I have a concern: control issues. She is controlling your relationship AND you are allowing her to do so. Short-term, this doesn’t bother me too much, but long-term, it is not healthy. This sets a precedent that supports her not being direct and honest with you. It enables her to avoid fundamental and necessary communication, a cornerstone of a healthy relationship. Please be VERY aware of this.

I suggest imagining that you have already kissed her. Kissed her as much as you would like. You are now happy to have finally gone beyond this point of concern in your relationship.

So now that you have kissed her, what is it like being with her. Is there another threshold that she is going to use to keep you controlled (so she feels safe)? Or is everything OK now and she can reveal all that she is to you AND you can feel comfortable to be all that you are with her without having to compensate.

Haasman

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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

I know I am the "young'n" of the group here, and I totally understand what sflori has is much deeper than anything I currently have/had at my young age of 17 years.

It is the truth, most girls I've gone on dates with/gone out with indeed to like honesty. Unfortunately, my honesty always seems to come off as brutal with some girls.

The current "object of my affection" pulled the biggest a-hole move on me, lying to get out of going on a date with me, even when I told her all she had to tell me was the truth. So I basically stopped talking to her about anything deeper than a friendship for...4-6 weeks, and now she asks me to hang out! :p :p :p Hahaha...."Sorry..I don't think I would be comfortable doing that, I don't want to have feelings for you again" Which is the truth. And she gets all mad about my little "rejection" and gets all pissy. Woopsies...at least I don't lie rolleyes: Well, now I know she likes me, what I have thought for a long time, and the fact we put up with one another's crap in school/out of for like about half a year kind of demonstrates this ah well.

Back to you: at least in my pitiful experience, I have found that being 100% truthful either is a really good thing (totally open, totally telling how you feel) and some ladies appreciate this very much. On the other hand, some like to hear what sounds good, even though they say they want the truth. And when you tell them the truth, how you feel, what you think, they get really pissed and agitated. Unfortunately, my personality is black and white. Yes or no. It's always truthful, but not exactly...umm..."flexible" when it comes to the ladies. The current object of my affection is coming to appreciate my honesty (which she formerly saw as cold, uncaring, etc)

So walk a fine line. Hopefully you are more flexible than me. I always tell them the truth, tell them what's on my mind, and they either are happy about me being truthful, or they flip out cause I am..."mean, cold, unloving" Walk a fine line, and fib when it's convenient/necessary.

PS. When she asks you how a pair of hideous shoes look don't respond with "Uhh...they're made of wood....."

BAD MOVE! :p:

Man! you've got some good points and insights, my friend!!

Yes, I am usually a gentle man, especially when it comes to people of the opposite sex. About the only time I get aggressive is when I'm working (you have to be somewhat aggressive when working in live television) or when I'm playing sports, etc. With people, I'm pretty much even keeled (sp?)

When it comes to women, I don't take a lot of chances, and have to reach a certain comfort level before I make a move such as a first kiss.

One of the biggest things I keep reminding myself of is the conversation my housemate (and Barbara's close friend) had with me last week. He told me that in her last relationship, it had gotten too physical from the beginning. She told the guy that she wanted to establish a good foundation first and he still didn't change his tune. So she called off the relationship. That's the mindset that she has now, according to her good friend. So the fact that we haven't kissed yet doesn't really bother me as much anymore. In fact, she must consider me someone that she can see going long term with since she's trying so hard to establish that solid foundation first. (A little speculative, I know.)

Regarding the controlling issue, thanks for the observation. I've been caught a few times in relationships where I've allowed the woman to have more control than she should have. Barbara seems, so far, to have a personality similar to mine where she's not too high mantainance. That's good! The fact that she hasn't allowed a kiss to take place yet, I think, is due mostly to her desire not to get into the same situation with me as she was with her previous relationship. But I will keep my eye on that, thanks!!

An observation:

After discussing this "situation" with both men and women, I've seen something interesting:

Most of the men (from advice received here where most members are men) don't see the situation being very good for me. They see Barbara as hesitant and possibly not too into me.

Most women I talk to think she really likes me and is definately intrested in moving towards a relationship. They see the cards/letters I've received after each date as really sweet and a sign of her interest. After the third date, I had received an email from her upon my arrival home saying that she thought she had forgotten to thank me and that she really enjoyed our evening.
A women friend of mine said that that email was sent primarilly to let me know that she's intrested, even though she didn't let me kiss her that night. I still received a real card in tee mail a few days later thanking me for a nice evening and telling me how much she is enjoying getting to know me.

People look at the same elements of a situation and see completley different things. I suppose we'll always be guessing to some degree, which makes it so much fun!

Thanks for the words, guys!!

I agree with the advice you've received from the girls you've talked to.

For me, the clincher is the notes and the e-mail expressing her interest in you and describing the good time she had with you.

A girl who had no romantic interest in you wouldn't have taken the time to write the notes. It takes too much investment from someone if they only want to be friends. A woman especially would be aware of this since they notice the little stuff. Women in general might expect a man to pick up on this too, but I think most men wouldn't. We are looking for the direct and obvious approach, i.e., this kiss, sex, etc.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Kinda wish we weren't like that, but I guess it's the differences, among other things, that make the combination between the sexes so special and unique! Imagine what it would be like if men and women thought pretty much the same? I wouldn't want to live on Venus anyway.... to hot!

PS As it is, I've always been one to write letters and notes as well. I haven't here because I didn't want to look like I was just copying her. But I've always liked to write letters and cards. Your're right, it shows the other person a little more thought and effort. I've even gone as far as to create my own cards with construction paper! But that'll be a ways off here!

Most women that I know of think that it's SOOOO cool when you take the time to make something and give of your self that way. I have been known to be creative in that aspect (cards, etc.) and I got alot of compliments on them. I just thought I was being unique, you know kinda go and give a little bit of myself here. That kind of stuff women like more than alot of stuff that men do in general that we "think they like". Those who haven't tried it yet, try it, take a chance, and see what happens..

I noticed a lack of activity on this thread and thought I'd try to get back on track. How are things Stefano? Any good news?

Well...........

I'm hoping that no news is good news. I haven't seen her for a couple weeks, here's why:

After our last date on July 10, we had unofficially planned to get together during the next week before a party at my house on Friday the 18th. As it turned out, she had to work every night that week and then decided not to come to the party because she was driving with her family down to Duck, NC early Saturday morning the 19th.

She's been in NC all week and gets back late last night or today. So I'll call her today to see if she wants to do something soon. I suppose her answer will tell me where she is with this. I'll keep y'all posted!

Thanks for asking!

send her a thank you note after your next date. That will surprise her! See, to put something in writing, you have to think about it over and over again, because once it is gone in the mail...it is GONE.
Women (and men) act and search for different things in a relationship according to age. What age group are we talking about?

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J.H.
'86 300E

J.,

Thanks for the advise! I actually am one to write to women I date. This time, she beat me to the punch by sending me a thank you card after our first date and then one after the next two. I dind't want to look like I was merely copying her, so I've stuck to emails. I do plan to send one after our next date, should it prove a positive one.

Our ages? I'm 38. She's 36.

Obviously you both are mature enough to know what you guys want from a relationship.
She may just be extra cautious because of some past relationships. Women are more sensitive than men and that is just a fact. In the female world, little things count.
If your intentions are good, you have to be inventive and innovative enough to become that unique person in her life but, at the same time, be truthful.
If your intentions are NOT good...the sky is the limit, if you know what I mean.

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J.H.
'86 300E

Tomorrow we're going out for dinner and we'll also look at pictures of my recent vacation in europe. We'll see................

Hey Stefano, just curious how that date went as I'm in a similiar situation right now.

If you're wondering what happend next, it's in this thread:

My dating life's an open book, Part II: I pose a question....