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  #1  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:13 AM
Orkrist
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Hi-Po cars available now for les $?

I don't post too much on the board, but would like to offer my thoughts about cars in general and solicit some feedback.

Firstly, I'm not a die-hard Benz fan. I'm becoming one, but I bought my 300 D Turbo for economical reasons and because it was available and had a cool (to me) history. I'm really just a serious car nut with minimal mechanical skills. (Future bankruptcy?)

Anyway, I was initially looking for a Porsche 944/951 (S/S2), but spent my money on the Benz. No regrets, but still looking. So, let us put away our fart-can grudges and honestly discuss the merits of some of these cars...

1.) Porsche 944/951(S/S2): Great looks, pedigree, build quality and galvanized steel, reasonable maintenance if cared for. A little hyped IMO, but cool as hell, esp. the later 951/951S. 968 Coupe rocks-too expensive and untrustworthy for me personally.

2.) The whole third gen Nissan 300Z/Mazda RX7/Toyota Supra thing-All twin turbo variants. Seem more reliable with higher miles, possibly easier (cheaper) to maintain than Euro cars with pretty psychotic performance. I like the last 3000Z more than the 350Z, actually. That 300Z's design is strangely resistant to time. But, interiors lack in some respects, and I don't like Japanese cars in general.

3.) The second gen Toyota MR2. Plentiful and inexpensive, offering good performance and decent looks on the cheap, again with easier rnaintenance. A little cheesy, but I'd love to drive one to death. (I'd also like to drive a Fiat X1/9 to death, but I won't bore you. But...So ahead of its time..).

4.) The MB 190 2.3-16/Gen one M3: Few made, rarity boosts entry cost. Many toasted or wrecked/repaired. Costly maintenance but cool.

5.) Mish-mash; Peugot MI 16, Audi GT Coupe, MB 190 2.6 Sportline with striped leather and carbon fiber interior/manual: All too rare, pay more for a good one than its worth, many ghetto'd beyond recognition.

Did I miss anything? Are there any other used performance car gems ripe for the plucking? Anyone ever own one of these? Will this post fade away into nowhere?

Also-the new Dodge Neon VR-T or whatever its called. Am I the only person on the board who thinks this car rocks?

Last edited by Orkrist; 11-23-2003 at 05:19 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2003, 10:15 AM
Glen's Avatar
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I generally agree with your assessment. The 944 is one of best balanced cars ever. Still looks great today and can be made to perform with almost anything available now! One downfall is that panel gap is definitely indicative of it's VW/Audi and '70s heritage. The redo as 968 is much better in this regard, however, I don't like the way the 968 looks. I believe only the Turbo models carry the 951 designation even though the S2 had the same body work.

The RX7 (3rd gen), Supra (4th gen), and 300ZX (4th gen, Z32) are all wonderful cars. The Supra in particular can be a real montser with modifications but I prefer the styling of the Z better. The Supra and Z suffer from being overweight and the Z engine compartment is incredibly hard to work in.

I do like the 2nd gen MR2, especially the later Turbo models with revised rear suspension. The little 4-cylinder turbo is durable and can be modified to very high HP numbers. While the styling may be a bit derivative, I think overall it looks good and has held up pretty well.

The E30 M3 is a brilliant handling car with a jewel of a 4-cylinder engine. Styling is a bit over the top but is in character for the design of the car. I'd love to own one to complement my 190E 2.3-16 but as you mention, many are track abused and would be expensive to update/maintain.

The Neon SRT is indeed very fast for the price but every Neon I've ever looked at lacks any semblence of quality construction. I think it would be fun to own for a while but I doubt I'd want to hang onto it for the long haul.

In the '80s, I owned a 924 Turbo S (931), 1980 model with M471 suspension (this became the suspension used on the 944 with 5-lug hubs, vented disks, and 16" x 6" forged 928 style flatwheels). Fun car if not terribly fast. You've probably heard horror stories of how unreliable these cars were. Maybe but mine gave me very little trouble.

Other affordable performance gems...hmm. Early NSX's, if you like the styling, are sort of affordable now. C4 Corvettes. C36/C43 AMG's, early E39 BMW 540i's are coming down. Personally, I think it's a great time to be a car enthusiast!
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2003, 10:25 AM
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In my opinions, all these cars live in the rather dark and murky underworld of the ageing performance car.

Looking at it cynically, it's an easy place (as you realise) to loose lots of money. By the way don't think the Japanese stuff is immune - they (I've seen particularly with the MR2) can sting you almost as badly as anything here if you get a bad one, of which as you mention, there are so many.

Bear in mind too, these may attract more abusive/less enthusiastic owners than those of Porsche 944s, M3's etc.


But it's a very interesting place to spend time huh? I'm this close (imagine I'm holding my fingers close together) to delving into this underworld, but for the risk and the time.

The easy answer is: If a perfect car happens to come along (I'm in the motor trade), I will think about buying it

- to me that's more important even that what car it is exactly, but I'm hoping to see a 190E-16v, 968, or 500E -

rather than go in looking for a good car, and possibly rising up from the vines and weeds with something that isn't what it could be.

I bought a '98 Audi A6 2.8 Quattro, very very good car, but it's modern, won't break down, and won't throw up expensive worn parts. And that's not the name of the game is it? So it's going..


good luck whatever you may get.. and of course let us know how it is
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2003, 01:06 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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The Jaguar XJS, the only way to own a V12 under 10K. (If you can keep up with the repairs.)

The Ford Crown Victoria ex. police cars are pretty quick. And can be picked up real cheap.

The Ferrari 308's are comeing down in prive nicely to about 20-30k

The Jaguar XJR's are starting to dip below 20k. I have seen them go for as little as 15k.

The best way to go fast for cheap is american iron though, the 5.0 Mustangs, Camaro's, can be picked up for a song, and can be pushed into the 11's very cheaply.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2003, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hatterasguy
The Jaguar XJS, the only way to own a V12 under 10K. (If you can keep up with the repairs.)
There are 750iLs under $10,000 locally and possibly on eBay. Same caveats as a Jag. On these cars I'd defy conventional wisdom and get the cars with the highest number of miles on it. High miles = low shop time. It's a gamble either way.

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  #6  
Old 11-23-2003, 11:21 PM
Orkrist
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Yeah, the Jag's are out there. My boss just bought one (XJS), black on black, very sharp. He got a good deal but it is slowly eating away at that amount of money a non-enthusiast is willing to spend on irritations (repairs). Allways something...

The Subaru is cool and is fast, but they are still too expensive. I don't like to spend money on cars! A friend has one and he's racking up the tickets, too!

My brother had a HWY Patrol interceptor and it trucked. Nice ride, too. I don't want a Camaro or Mustang. I have no probnlem with them, at least the stang. I think the new ones look like those Ason Martin Virages or whatever in the mid nineties-a good coupe style, esp. the "Bullet" edition. I don't want to drag race anyone, I just like well engineered handling for a low price. Basically what any student/car enthusiast wants!

I'll tell you guys another car that is showing up at the low end of the spectrum-the BMW 850, 8 or 12 cyl. versions. Its too bad no one really liked them when they came out, too expensive I guess. I'm sure they're maintenance hogs but man they are seriously cool and look dangerous.

I've also thought about the Alfa Milano. But, I'll most likely end up with a '88 or so 944 n/a. Thats what I've been looking for and really want. We'll see. Oh yeah, I agree with you Glen, there are so many cool cars to choose from that at one point were just too expensive. It is a great time to be an enthusiast.

Oh yeah-Pentoman, you have a Seat Ibiza?

Last edited by Orkrist; 11-23-2003 at 11:27 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2003, 11:42 PM
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Celica!

I'm just totally biased. I bought this car expecting much less from a Toyota w/ 103000 mi. on the clock. However, other than a misc. rattles, it's a great car!

It's a nice handling car! Much better than Civics... *ive driven some too*
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2003, 01:12 AM
Cazzzidy
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I had a 1989 Jaguar XJS V12 with 33,000 miles pass through my hands. It was left to me when my grandfather passed away last year.

It was, in my eye, a very beautiful car. Very comfortable, practical interior with lovely leather and nice wood. Good lines and the motor was a joy to stare at. (Try changing the plugs though!! )

However, my 190E could run laps around it. The Jag may have been just slightly faster than my 2.6L 190, but it certainly handled far, far worse. I was really, really disapointed by the performance of this car. I certainly felt cool driving around in it though.

Heres a pic:

?

I sold it for *gasp* $7500. How pathetic is that?


I also agree that there are some mighty fine 80s/early 90s cars running around right now. My choices?

BMW E30 M3, a fantastic looking and performing car. It is my understanding that a good one is hard to find and will still net $8000 +.

MBZ 190E 16V, awesome handeling and looking Benz. Competed heavily with the E30 M3, so it performs similarly. (not quite as quick/nimble/tunable though)

VW GTi, although cheap and plentiful, I think this is still a good choice. I love the boxy look. Very tunable and really easy/cheap to maintain. Handles wonderfully.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2003, 12:57 PM
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Re: Hi-Po cars available now for les $?

Quote:
Originally posted by Orkrist
5.) Mish-mash; Audi GT Coupe,
Wow! Someone else that's heard of the CGT's.
Built from '81 thru '87
Good cars in many respects. The engines and trannies are bullit-proof. Mileage almost doesn't matter with these cars, except post 83' models that went to hydraulic lifters. They clatter like crazy.
These are definately not street burners, unless you're lucky enough to find an '87-1/2 turbo model, or a real rare Ur-GT quatro model.
Plagued with electrical problems. My '83 has been prettty good, but the '82 requires almost constant care and attention. Not too big a problem if you have a decent ability to fix things electrical.
Prices were cheap for these, but they're getting more scarce, and prices are creeping back up for the few of us crazy enough to want one. And parts are getting hard to find(hence my parts car)
They handle decently for such an old school car, and still have a good ride.
One of the best things, though, is I don't blend in with all the rest of the crowd on the street. I love pulling up next to some "ricer" at a stop light. They'll sit there and check you out, trying not to look like they are I just won't race them. I tried a V-tec prelude once. He blew my doors off
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Last edited by rickg; 10-21-2007 at 03:36 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2003, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orkrist
I'll tell you guys another car that is showing up at the low end of the spectrum-the BMW 850, 8 or 12 cyl. versions. Its too bad no one really liked them when they came out, too expensive I guess. I'm sure they're maintenance hogs but man they are seriously cool and look dangerous.
read thru this before jumping into one of those:
http://my750.com/introduction.htm
That 850 CSi is one of the best looking cars out there IMHO, but I wouldn't want one for a daily driver, even if I were rich.
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2003, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 123c
Hey Rick,
Did you look at those Audi GT's in the Wrecking yard in Chelan?
No. Do they have some there? I gotta check that out
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2003, 01:39 PM
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An SVX would be fun too. I always thought they were pretty wierd looking, but all the more reason to have one But didn't they have trannie problems? Or maybe that was just the automatics.
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2003, 02:15 PM
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That's kinda wierd. They make a sporty car like that, then only give you an auto trannie with it. Maybe that's why they didn't sell real well.
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2003, 03:26 PM
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Just think how much fun it could've been with a 5-speed trannie
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2003, 03:44 PM
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Re: Hi-Po cars available now for les $?

Quote:
Originally posted by Orkrist
Also-the new Dodge Neon VR-T or whatever its called. Am I the only person on the board who thinks this car rocks?
My brother in law had one of the earlier Neon R/T's. Fun little car. But after having the trannie go away at only 40K miles, forget it. I've had enough bad experiences with Chisler Corp vehicles.
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past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)
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