Musical Instruments...What do you play? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bjcsc · #1 05-11-2004, 04:16 PM

I played trumpet all through grade school/high school and professionally after high school. In my last year of high school I also started playing bass. Played in the same band through and after college, received a subsequently withdrawn record deal with Margueritaville Records (same corporate BS crap mikemover wrote of), got frustrated, swore the whole industry off and sold all my stuff. Moved here from Memphis, started buying stuff again and then played in another band until a few years ago. Sold all of my heavy gear, but still have my American Made Fender Jazz Deluxe, Ovation Acoustic/Electric, and an SWR Workingman's 10. My pride and joy though is my upright, which I've had for about 3 years now. It's pretty much all I play anymore. ..

MTI · #2 05-11-2004, 04:38 PM

Playing music for a living is a whole bigger "mess" than playing for beers and tip money and having a regular day job. I know a lot of great musicians that couldn't deal with the independent contractor aspect of being "full time" since pretty much everyone in the business believes that the musicians and performers are at the bottom of the food chain, ready to be exploited for "beer and tip money."

That being said, consider this a call for all forum members to get out and support your local "live" musicians. It can be a small club/bar that offers live music, restaurants with a piano player, jazz clubs, all the way up to those towns that have a symphony or orchestra . . . get out there, pay the cover, listen to live music before it's replaced by sampling and digital audio.

Hans-Ulrich · #3 05-11-2004, 06:24 PM

Drums for 30+ years. Led ZeppelinI got me hooked. John Bonham was totally awesome. I play with several people in Benicia and Ukiah. I wanted to play professionally, but with parents who are both doctors, I was more or less forced to go to college. Maybe in my next life!

PHAEDRUS242 · #4 05-11-2004, 06:52 PM

As a weekend musician, I had to take this opportunity to brag about the newest addition to my family. Just took delivery of a brand new Rickenbacker 340 in Fireglo. It's the 330 body style with an additional high gain pickup for a little added oomph. I also play piano, trumpet and fancy myself somewhat of a vocalist. I definately second the call to support local talent. As a "free beer and small stipend" sort of player myself, I really gotta hand it to those who are out there doing it every night trying to make a living.
here's a link to the official pic:

http://www.pmblues.com/product_pics/206c.jpg

mikemover · #5 05-12-2004, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G-Benz
I'm hearing grumbling among my professionally-adept musician associates...what gives these days?

Well, a number of factors have converged to make it a VERY bad time to be a musician in the music business.

Record deals have always been horrendously one-sided affairs when it comes to division of the spoils (profits)....Of course the record labels are the ones with the money to spend on making high-quality recordings, mass-producing them, mass-marketing, distribution, etc... So from that point of view, the one-sidedness is almost defensible, because they are taking on the lion's share of the financial risk.

But without the musicians, they would have no product to sell. They would not exist. Musicians existed before the music business, but the music business did not exist before musicians.

It's kind of like the "which came first--chicken or the egg" argument, but....

Add this to the technological advances of the past decade....computers, digital recording devices and software, and inexpensive CD-burners....devices that make it possible for many, many more people to make sonically high-quality recordings for far less money.

On the surface, this seems to be a GOOD thing for musicians...and in many ways it is. But, it has also saturated the market with so MUCH music, and so much MEDIOCRE music in particular--just because someone can now AFFORD to make a recording does not mean that the music will be good! This trend makes it more difficult for everyone. To put it simply, there are now many more "pieces of the pie" available, but that means that the individual "pieces" are getting smaller and smaller. The "socialization" of music, if you will. (That one was for Zeitgeist!

)

Piracy by "bootlegging" CDs is a HUGE problem in the hip-hop and R&B genres....Street corner vendors and small shops selling CDs in many urban areas are almost always selling pirated copies. This is also a MASSIVE issue in Asian countries, in all genres of music, and movies as well. At least 75% of the CDs and DVDs sold in some Asian countries are bootlegs....Some say that is a conservative estimate.

I think the damage done by free downloading is well-known to everyone by now. The music business has FINALLY stopped fighting the change, and is now finding ways to take advantage of this technology and profit from it, but they wallowed in denial for so long that major damage has already been done, and much money has already been lost for musicians and songwriters.

Meanwhile, record labels have continued to RAISE the price of CDs to the point that they are often unaffordable for the average teenage or college-age music fan.

While prices have been rising, the overall quality of what the labels are putting out there has been declining. The industry has become so "youth-obsessed" and "image obsessed" that the actual talent of the artist and the quality of the songs is often secondary. Most people are not going to actually spend $15-$20 for this disposable music. They are going to download the song they heard on the radio or MTV, for free if they can, or they'll go to itunes.com and pay 99 cents for it, and that's it. And that's assuming they're not already sick of it from hearing it in heavy rotation on the radio and video channels 20 times a day. Next month, the song and the artist are forgotten, and the label moves on to the next flavor of the week.

Another "side-effect" of downloading is that the purchasing of music is becoming more and more "single-song oriented", instead of "album oriented". All the downloading websites heavily promote their "99 cents a song" rate... So now you don't actually need to be talented enough to write an entire album of good material. Now, if you can pull just one hummable song out of your a$$ (or pay someone with the skills to write it for you), you can be the rockstar of the week!

What's the big deal about that, you say? Well, considering that the average record deal stipulates that the artist gets somewhere between 10 and 17% of the profits from the sale of their music (and this only AFTER repaying recording costs, marketing costs, distribution costs, manufacturing and packaging costs......), then you have to sell a $hitload of songs at 99 cents each to make any real money! 10 or 12 percent of 99 cents isn't much.

Most major-label artists have to sell 500,000 copies of an album (NOT just a single song, but ALBUMS) to BREAK EVEN! At that point, the record label is pretty much paid back, and the artist begins making money.

Think about that. 1/2 a million records before you BEGIN to make any money off your album sales!

This "single-song" mentality also does not promote longevity for artists, from the fans' point of view, and the labels' point of view. Fans cannot "get to know" an artists just from one song. You need to hear the whole album to really grasp what a good band is "all about".

Also, there's no loyalty from the labels towards their artists. If your first song isn't a hit single right off the starting line, you're damn lucky to get a second chance. If you do get a second single, and that one is not a "hit", then you're probably done, as far as the record label is concerned. They move on in search of the next one-hit wonder.

Combine all of that with the general "dumbing down" of almost ALL forms of entertainment lately....World Wrestling Federation, anyone?

Reality TV, American Idol, Jackass..... Everyone is trying to appeal to the "lowest common denominator", and for some reason, it's working. Except it's not working for the people who actually posess some TALENT.

MTV or VH1 airplay is pretty much an impossibility for a new and/or "unknown" rock band nowadays. Their lineup is so show-heavy that there are hardly any slots for videos at all! When they do actually play videos, it's very hip-hop/R&B/dance oriented.

Radio airplay is also increasingly difficult to get for all artists, due to many of the aforementioned factors, and also due to consolidtion within the business. Clear Channel, Viacom, and a couple other smaller companies now control OVERWHELMING market share. If you're not on their stations, then you're probably not getting heard very much.

One of the only ways many artists can make any real money is from touring and merchandising, but this is difficult for many artists too, because fewer people actually go out to see live music nowadays....many factors are at work there....longer working hours, more distractions (internet, TV, kids, etc.), the aforementioned lack of quality performers (who wants to go see a band that can barely play?), even something as seemingly unrelated as stiffer DUI/DWI penalties in many areas have shrunk the audience for live music.

Venues and ticket outlets have also consolidated, so that ticket prices for established artists are out of the reach of many fans, or at least they have to decide "OK, do I want to go see (insert your favorite ultra-huge artist here) for $79 at the Giganto-dome, or do I want to check out a few smaller-name bands at a local club that I may or may not like?" The smaller artists usually lose this contest.

Here's something of interest as well. It's an open letter from Courtney Love, of all people!

Yes, I know she's a disaster, but she makes some EXCELLENT points in this letter. (Although I'm not crazy about the union-oriented aspect of what she's proposing....) The main thing in her letter that will make you say "holy $h!t!" is the fact that the record business has more than a 95% FAILURE rate! This would spell unavoidable doom in any other business, yet it is standard opertating procedure for record labels! Here's the link.

http://www.mindspring.com/~gerryhem/piracy2.html

Unfortunately, Courtney Love is such a raving idiot in her personal life that she does not have the credibility to be taken seriously as an advocate for change in the music business.

This article is also interesting reading:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-15-artists-rights_x.htm

THIS is the crowning jewel of my rant!!!

This was written by a popular producer that I've met briefly, Steve Albini. The whole thing is a great read, but if you want to skip a lot of the technical stuff and industry-specific gripes and jargon, skip to the section entitled "There's This Band..." It's near the end of the article, and he describes a hypothetical "typical record deal" for a band. In my experience, and the experience of far, far too many of my friends, cohorts, fellow musicians....his descriptions and numbers are right on target. Sad.

http://www.thebaffler.com/albiniexcerpt.html

Whew....OK, I'm sure there's more, but I'm tired of typing.

Does that answer your question?

Mike

crash9 · #6 05-12-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Well, a number of factors have converged to make it a VERY bad time to be a musician in the music business.

Have you ever put anything out on vinyl? Are you into that analogue, vinyl forever stuff?

mikemover · #7 05-12-2004, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crash9
Have you ever put anything out on vinyl? Are you into that analogue, vinyl forever stuff?

We tried to get our first label (MCA) to press some vinyl copies for us, but couldn't get them to do so.

There were actually a few thousand copies of that album on cassette, which seems strange now...I don't remember the last time I saw a new album on cassette in a retail store.

But yes, we're analog-heads when it comes to recording. We fought the "Pro-Tools revolution" tooth and nail.

Almost everything on our first album was recorded to two-inch analog tape, using a vintage analog recording console, tape machine, outboard gear, and microphones. Most of the editing and all of the mixing was done on tape as well. Tubes just sound better, especially for rock and roll.

All of the basic tracks (drums, bass, rhythm guitars) on our second album were recorded to tape, but overdubs and vocals were recorded digitally with Pro-Tools. Can't fight the future, I guess....

Mike

PHAEDRUS242 · #8 05-12-2004, 10:53 AM

hey mike...
thanks for the insight there. really good stuff. already looking forward to any future rants you may have in store for us.

G-Benz · #9 05-12-2004, 11:19 AM

Yeah Mike!

You really explained the issue quite thoroughly!

My home studio is nicely equipped analog-wise, but I can't compete with the guys armed with the techno-gear!

And I was at "Guitar Center" last weekend ogling the "Pro-Tools" setup they had on display...but I'm not selling the W124 to get one!

mikemover · #10 05-12-2004, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G-Benz
Yeah Mike!

You really explained the issue quite thoroughly!

My home studio is nicely equipped analog-wise, but I can't compete with the guys armed with the techno-gear!

And I was at "Guitar Center" last weekend ogling the "Pro-Tools" setup they had on display...but I'm not selling the W124 to get one!

Unfortunately for us old-schoolers, it's much cheaper to get a top-notch digital/ProTools studio up and running than to get a top-notch analog/old-school studio up and running.

High-end analog mixing consoles often are in the six-figure price range...some large SSL boards, Neves, etc...can be in the HIGH six-figures, or more. A Studer 2-inch tape machine...Five figures. Compressors, limiters, pre-amps, tube microphones....Nowadays you can't open a truly professional-level analog studio for under a million dollars.

A nice professional-level ProTools studio can be set up for a little more than the cost of a new S-class Mercedes, if you already have the building to put it in.

Now that the latest version of ProTools is out (the High Def. version), the older setups can sometimes be found on the used market at almost affordable prices.

Mike

Hans-Ulrich · #11 05-13-2004, 01:51 PM

For those of you who maybe want to lay down some tracks or make a demo of your band, check out this link. www.riverrox.com.
The price for recording is pretty reasonable, and it is located about 90 minutes north of San Francisco.

crash9 · #12 05-13-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
Tubes just sound better, especially for rock and roll.

Mike

They say it’s just a more pleasing kind of distortion. The economies of digital seem to be allowing “World Music” to flourish. My dogs don’t seem to like CD’s much though. I’m startin to collect vacuum tubes. I do also have an all NAIM system that I love – it’s bullet proof – guess that’s not knowing how to pick a guitar though – I took saxophone lessons until puberty, but you know – gotta have your priorities.