While down in West Palm Beach Today for the Barret Jackson Auto Auction, I took the opertunity to Visit Renntech. I talked to a gentelmen Bob Brady about the project. We discussed what could be done with the computers from the SL600. He introduced me to one of his technichians. When I told him what I was doing, he politly made the sign of the cross.

Baiscally they were only able to confirm my theories of how this would have to be done. Sort of just like I thought, The ESP module has to be installed and at least talking to the wheel speed sensors. And turning off the ESP with the button will not overide that fact.

But they did give me a good tip for diabling the DAS, buy starting it once and then disconnecting the DAS module.

I was kind of hoping they would be able to sell me two computers that would have

A)Top speed limiter removed.
B) DAS disabled
C) ESP removed (only if I cant get things to work right)
D) Wired to work without mass flow sensors and use wide band O2 sensors

option D would be a real nice option if I ever decided to put a set of throttle bodies on with 12 velocity stacks sticking up through the hood.

One of the first thing I would like to do after getting this running is hack the transmission CAN bus protocols out of the computers, and then start experimenting with a MoTech unit.

John Roncallo

That's really funny.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Why are you set on using the original ECU's?
It seems like it's not worth the trouble, especially if your consulting the services of Renntech... $$$$ An LH injection system is not designed to run well with no mass air flow sensor even with the help of a wideband O2 sensor. BTW, If your worried about a bottle-neck in airflow at the sensor you could make a larger housing.

In my opinion, I wouldn't try to re-engineer the LH system to work. Besides, having 2 ECU's running one engine was a bad idea to begin with. I'd suggest moving to a single aftermarket programmable ECU. Being able to tune your engine would be worth it much less the frustration and possible cost of the old ECU's.

Now, I do agree that the trans communication is a problem. There are ways around that though. Trying to figure out the CAN bus is going to be a nightmere. I'd suggest dumping the trans controller and working with the solenoids that are being switched on and off. From here, build your own controller that works of the load and rpm signal from the ECU.
Tell me your thoughts.
Adam

__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

Yes, I think my girlfriend has ESP.

What about dumping the trans alltogether and going with an older 4spd auto? 722.4 I think? Wouldn't that resolve some of the computer issues?

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Adam, Hatterasguy

Yes these are all things I have considered. First off, I dont have LH injection. I have ME-SFI. What the difference is I dont even know. The process of doing this will be as follows.

!) Hook up everything with the old wire harness, leaving stuff loose everywhere because it wont fit wher its supposed to. Verify all grounds everywhere. Make the sign of the cross like the guy at Rentech did and turn the key and hope it even starts. Hopefully I can get everything tiewraped down good enough and computers kept cool enough so that I can test drive the car. If I get this far it will be like flying on instruments and breaking out of the clouds at 400ft and seeing the runway numbers right in front of me. Now this step all sounds easy except my ability to trouble shoot this system even if it was a stock SL600 installation is limited in that this engine and associated technology is after my time as an MB tech.

2) Next step assuming all worked well with step one. Custom make the wire harnesses to permanently fit everything in the car. Make the sign of the cross and try it again.

3) Now if the transmission should be the one lone problem the older 4 speed unit would fix that.

4) Now I need the thing running to get the CAN buss protocols so that will be the first thing I will try to do. Then I can Purchase a MoTec unit and now I will have total engine control. That will be very cool.

5) Why do I want to get rid of the mass flow sensors and go to wide band control. Because I would like to get rid of the MB manifolds mass flow sensors and electronic throttle actuators. Then get a set of throttle bodies and have 12 velocity stacks sticking up through the hood. I really need that Motec unit.

John Roncallo

Two weeks ago when I fit the engine I found I only had about 3/8" hood clearance. This fit check was performed using the top portion of the 129 cross member cut out of the SL600 and temporarily welded in place on a extreamly hacked up 107 subframe. That was the first time the engine sat in the car on 129 engine mounts. With the cross member in place from the 129, I was able to make a tool that would position what will be the final version of the top of the subfram yet to be fabricated. This tool was made to place the engine pads 3/8" lower and 1/4 inch back of wher it had been mounted in my previous attempt. With the tool made, I removed the 129 crossmember and repositioned it according to the adjustments made. In the attached photos, You can see the modified cross member with the top portion of the 129 cross member in place and the positioning tool in back. I also fit the subframe on the engine and observed 3 interfearance point.

1) AC compressor contact with fwd left subframe mount.
2) Atlernator contact with fwd right subframe mount.
3) Right side exhaust forward downpipe contact with rear upper control arm bracket.

Finding that the engine is supposed to be off to the right almost enabled the installation of the AC compressor. As you can see its very close. The dropping of the 3/8" may have just been too much. Also this is the first time I ever installed the AC compressor because it looked impossible up until now.

The situation is difficult to tell at the moment because I have no weight on the engine to subframe and the engine tilt may be wrong. Tomarrow I will install the engine and trans and make the final judgment. The exhaust seems to not be a significant problem in that a pipe with a tighter bend can be made. One possible solution for this is to modify the subframe for hard mounting. That will give me all the clearance I need.

Attached Thumbnails

       

From seeing the M120 run in my friends S600 I can say its a silk smooth engine. You could probably get away with hard mounting it, and not having much vibration.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Im much more worried about road shock than engine vibration. I think I will prob ably go with some urethane bushing scheme.

John Roncallo

This weekend I focused on the engine sadel mod for the subframe. The last subframe mods were made with a temporary sadel actually cut out of the 129. This was done to facilitate fitting of the engine. With the engine position now well established it is time to make the permanent mods to the subframe. The 129 does not use a subframe and therfore the engine saddel is much less robust as it only supports the engine.

First off the mods for the 107 subframe required a significant amount of material removal from the top surface of the main cross member. The subframe is made with 0.100" low carbon steel. Because I will have to make the cross section of this area a lot lower I elected to replace the material with 0.187" steel. Please note that just because I used thicker material the depth of the area is lower and the moment of inertia of this area is still significantly reduced making this area weeker that the original in bending. This is why I said that complete redesign of this subframe out of better materials may be required.

In any case I was faced with the problem of bending a 12" wide, 0.187" thick piece of sheet steel. To do this I made a die out of laminated 2"X6" lumber. Between using this die in a press as shown in the pictures and working it by hand I was able to bend the lowered area of the cross member. You will not the tooling is crude but effective, I still have a little bit of hand reworking on this part to get it right. The next step will be to bend the two flat pieces down to form the engine mount bases. This will be done by clamping the part between the two dies and heating along the edge where it comes out between the two dies, Then bending by hand. Yes I will have to work fast as the wood will catch fire. Each edge has to last one bend. If it doesent work, I will just have to spring for a press brake attachment for my press.

Stay Tuned
John Roncallo

Attached Thumbnails

         

Pleasure to read

ingenious.

you are a wild man.

you are going to get it done.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

One of the pleasent surprises I found in this engine and transmission installation is that there are no modifications required for the 5 speed shifter to be installed. It has the same bolt pattern, same hole in the console and same facelplate height. It just bolts right in. An d the V12 on the handel looks so cool.

John Roncallo

Attached Thumbnails

   

Well I have been very sick over the past 3 weeks so not much go done. But I bought myself a 30 ton press and a very neet press brake attachment form this guy Jack on E-bay.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZaabad

After finding out that I have to remove the "V" die for bending heavy gage steel. The tool worked beautifully. I was able to bend the saddle and roughly fit it in place. Unfortunatly tomarrow is Mothers day so I wont be able to do anything usefull on the car.

If you look closely You will also see modifications to the forward subframe mounts. These are to install urithane bushings, which will give me a bit more room by the AC compressor and alternator.

Going slow but steady.

John Roncallo

Attached Thumbnails

 

Well illness behind me, Mothers day and other family gatherings behind me, its finnally back to work. The subframe is beginning to look like a real part. The top engine saddel is now rough trimmed tack welded in place and ready for final fitting. Once I am saisfied with the fitting of this, I will need to make the forward and aft box sections of the rear cross member.

The front half of the subframe will require some careful planning since I have to figure out how I'm going to re-route the swaybar. I need to see the engine in place and come up with a plan. Right now it looks like the oil pan is going to be covered with a 0.100" sheet of steel, with an axcess hole for removing the drain plug.

Tomarrows goals

1) Fit subframe to engine and final trim upper rear plate.
2) Refit check engine.
3) Fabricate 2 tapered fittings for urithane front subframe mounts
4) Taper bore 2 urithane subframe mounts
5) Taper bore 4 stainless steel exhaust manifold flanges.
6) Make cardboard templates of the rest of the aft cross member pices

John Roncallo

Attached Thumbnails