98 C280-starting probs

[MarkC]

Looked at a 98 C280 with about 74K miles today (buying), and started it and let it fully warmed up. Shut it down and then tried to start it again and two times in a row it would only turn over two times then it went dead (don't remember if the lights in the dash went out or not). On the third try, it started fine and we took it for a long test drive (to charge what we suspected was a weak battery-sitting for a while at a car dealer). Return, and tried restarting it after turning it off (test the battery) and several times it would crank just two times and then dead. After a few tries, it did crank until it starts (about 3 turns). sometimes normal, other times just two cranks and it's dead until I try again. It has a MB battery, so I suspect it may be the original (most buy the aftermarket because of price I guess), if so perhaps it's just old and weak. However, I don't know if there are any inherent or common probs with sensors or starters that would give the same symptoms when the engine compartment gets hot which is the main question I have here.

Any ideas?
TIA MarkC

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by carson356

when you start it, do you allow it to start its self by releasing the key, or do you dold the key in the crank position? if you are releasing it and allowing it to auto crank, try holding the key in the crank position and see if it doesn't then start, if it does, the flywheel and starter gear need to be lubed, sounds wierd i know, but i have seen many with that same problem, and once lubed they were fine. let us know what you find

I just held the key until it started. On the several times where it only turned over twice and was dead I was also holding it in the crank position. Think it's likely the battery?
MarkC

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by carson356

no, that is what i was saying, if you hold the key in the start position and it starts, the flywheel ring gear and starer drive need to be lubed. do you hear squeaking while cranking?

I don't recall hearing squeaking. I guess that this car is one you just momentarily turn the key to the start position then let off, and then the starter stays engaged until the engine starts? Is it NOT suppose to start when holding the key in the start position?
MarkC

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by carson356

it is called tip start, what i am telling you is exactly what you said, it is the type where you momentatilly turn the key and it is supposed to start on it's own, but since the starter ring gear and the starter drive need to be lubricated, it is not able to do that on it's own, that is why you have to get someone qualified enough to lube the starter drive and driven gears. here is a document from mercedes describing the problem

I never tried the 'tip start', only held the key in the start position until it would start or die after two cranks (key continually held in start position).

So if the starter needs grease then it would prevent the car from staring even IF you continually hold the key in the start position?
MarkC

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by carson356

no, only if you use the tipstart look at the picture and tell me which one looks like your key

The second key looks closest.

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by carson356

well then you definately have tip start, you need to remove the starter and get it lubed, and your problem will go away. be sure to use the paste lube that was shown in the document i posted

So if the engine will NOT START even if I continually HOLD the key in the START POSITION it means the starter needs to be lubed?

I'm clarify this because you seem to be under the impression that I was using the tip start method AND when the car failed to start using tip start method, I then continually held the key in the start position which would start the car (pointing to the starter needed to be lubed).

But this is not what is happening.

The problem I'm having is when I continually HOLD the key in the START positions and it does NOT start, only turns over twice and the starter stops working (while the key is in the start position).


Tip start--->Car starts? = YES ---> All is OK= no further diagnosis.

Tip start--->car starts? = NO---> NEXT to check: Hold key until start--->car starts? = YES --->Lube starter.

My situation:

Hold key in start position until start--->car starts? = YES --->All is OK

Hold Key in start position until start--->car starts? = NO ---> try again until it starts.

MarkC

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by MarkC

So if the starter needs grease then it would prevent the car from staring even IF you continually hold the key in the start position?
MarkC

Originally Posted by carson356

no, only if you use the tipstart look at the picture and tell me which one looks like your key

Ok then. Since the problem I am having is that the engine will NOT start even while continually HOLDING the key in the start position, then according to your answer ("no") then the problem must not be related to the starter needing lube.

MarkC

soory i thought youwere saying iy would start when held, so it will start and run for a second then die? or just crank a little and stop without the engine starting even for a few seconds? mark i deleted all the previous messages i left, i was completely wrong and i am sorry for wasting your time, i believe you will be ok once you install a new battery, i would eithe go with mercedes or interstate, try to stay away from chep ones, they will cause problems with the cars electrical systems. sorry again for the wrong information.