S320 vs S420 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #1 01-07-2005, 11:31 PM

How are the S320's? Is the car to big for the I6? How does the I6 compare to the small V8 in fuel mileage and ease of fixing the thing? I am not to concerned about speed but I would like a little pick up. Lets put it this way if an S320 is faster than my 300SDL it would be fast enough for me.

I see some very clean looking 97-99 S320's in the $16k range. Assuming the evap core is done these seem like a good buy. The S320's probably have fewer options, buying the last year of a base model seems like a good buy.

Jim H · #2 01-07-2005, 11:52 PM

This may get you started.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview.aspx?modelid=1917&src=vip

Um, the W140's weigh about 4,700 lbs!

S320 4,700 lb / 228 hp = 20.6 lbs/hp
S420 4,700 lb / 275 hp = 17.1 lbs/hp

More M-B model information here...

http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html

300SDL 3,900 lbs / 148 hp = 26.4 lbs/hp

240D 3,250 lbs / 67 hp = 48.5 lbs/hp

Rear axle ratios may differ, and will make up some of the difference, so don't take this too seriously.

I doubt that any car that M-B produced was really too underpowered, and besides, what's your hurry?

Best Regards,
Jim

markku · #3 01-08-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The S320's probably have fewer options, buying the last year of a base model seems like a good buy.

I think you are on the right track. Less options, say no leaking sunroof, means less maintenance. Even the standard accessory level in late models is more than adequate.

AlexTheSeal · #4 01-08-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Rear axle ratios may differ, and will make up some of the difference, so don't take this too seriously.

I doubt that any car that M-B produced was really too underpowered

Bingo. You just have to hit the go pedal a little harder, and what's wrong with that? No sweeter sound in the world than a straight six working for a living. Don't be one of those typical American bozo drivers who thinks any car with less than a 300-hp V-8 is underpowered just because you have to push the accelerator down more than an eighth of an inch when you're merging onto the freeway.

Brian Carlton · #5 01-08-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexTheSeal

Bingo. You just have to hit the go pedal a little harder, and what's wrong with that? No sweeter sound in the world than a straight six working for a living. Don't be one of those typical American bozo drivers who thinks any car with less than a 300-hp V-8 is underpowered just because you have to push the accelerator down more than an eighth of an inch when you're merging onto the freeway.

Exactly. What Alex said, Hattie.

You are not going to race anybody up I-95 anyway.

Hatterasguy · #6 01-08-2005, 09:24 AM

Exactly I cannot afford to speed I pay enough in insurance already. So an S320 is a lot faster than my SDL, ok that is plenty of speed for me. A base W140 has more options than I will every use, I realy only want, power windows, climate control, power seats, and a sunroof.

But another aspect of this, the V8 might get better fuel mileage. I know the 420SEL's get better mileage than the 300SEL's. The V8 doesn't have to work as hard to move the car around.

Brian Carlton · #7 01-08-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

But another aspect of this, the V8 might get better fuel mileage. I know the 420SEL's get better mileage than the 300SEL's. The V8 doesn't have to work as hard to move the car around.

Do you have some data on this? I would have a difficult time believing that the V8 can get better mileage than the I-6 unless the gearing on the V-8 is much taller. IIRC, they geared the I-6 very short because they were concerned with the lack of power. This would hurt the I-6 badly on the highway.

Hatterasguy · #8 01-08-2005, 09:55 AM

S320
Overview
Base MSRP $68,595
Highway Mileage 24 mpg
City Mileage 17 mpg
Seating Capacity 5 passengers
Cargo Capacity 15.6 cubic feet
Horsepower 228 hp

S420
Overview
Base MSRP $74,495
Highway Mileage 22 mpg
City Mileage 15 mpg
Seating Capacity 5 passengers
Cargo Capacity 15.6 cubic feet
Horsepower 275 hp

It looks like at least in the spec sheet the S320 has the S420 beat mileage wise.

Brian Carlton · #9 01-08-2005, 10:36 AM

I was thinking of the W126. Is there data that shows the 300SEL gets lower fuel economy than the 420SEL?

With the newer engines, the horsepower of the I-6 is considerably more, and, therefore, the gearing is probably taller than the 300SEL.

BTW, Hattie, the I-6 has 50% more horsepower than the 603!! That ought to pin you back in your seat!

A. Rosich · #10 01-08-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

I doubt that any car that M-B produced was really too underpowered, and besides, what's your hurry?

Best Regards,
Jim

What about these few examples (I know they were NOT imported in the U.S., but they were available worldwide):

W126 260SE 2.6 liter 6-cyl
W140 280SE / S280 2.8 liter 6-cyl
W124 200E / E200 2.0 liter 4-cyl gasoline
W124 200D / E200 Diesel 2.0 liter 4-cyl

All of the previous models were exceptionally underpowered and slow, created to satisfy the demand at markets where taxes are very expensive on high powered and/or high displacement engines. Or just to create an "affordable" entry level model to the lineup.

One thing is for sure, a 50 c.c. scooter would overpass any of these cars in the highway easily.

Jim H · #11 01-08-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

So an S320 is a lot faster than my SDL, ok that is plenty of speed for me....

Umm, Hattie, it may not be any faster, since at 100 mph they are the same speed. It might be a little quicker 0 to 60mph, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

But another aspect of this, the V8 might get better fuel mileage. I know the 420SEL's get better mileage than the 300SEL's. The V8 doesn't have to work as hard to move the car around.

Um, er, actually the I6 and the V8 both have to work as hard, since it takes pretty much the same horsepower to move either car at 70 mph. It's a question of how much fuel it takes to make the required horsepower.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question262.htm

Exerpted from the above link:

In a car traveling down a highway at the posted speed on level ground, the engine is doing three things:

1. It is overcoming rolling resistance in the drive train.
2. It is overcoming air resistance.
3. It is powering accessories like the alternator, the power steering pump and the air conditioner.

The engine might need to produce no more than 10 or 20 horsepower (HP) to carry this load. The reason why cars have 100- or 200-horsepower engines to is handle acceleration from a standing stop, as well as for passing and hill climbing. We only use the maximum HP rating for 1% of our driving time. The rest of the time, we are carrying around the weight and the friction of the much larger engine, which wastes a lot of energy.

All cars can cruise all day long at freeway-legal speeds. M-B's will do it in a certain comfort.

Our SDL's, or even the 67hp 240D, make quite enough horsepower to run down the highway. Oh, they may not make as much horsepower as the big gassers, and it therefore takes a few seconds more to reach cruising speed, but they use less fuel (25-30mpg instead of 15-17mpg) to make the required horsepower.

Hope this makes sense.

Best Regards,
Jim

Jim H · #12 01-08-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. Rosich

All of the previous models were exceptionally underpowered and slow...
One thing is for sure, a 50 c.c. scooter would overpass any of these cars in the highway easily.

Be careful not to confuse low acceleration with slow speed.

Underpowered, maybe, compared to other, more powerful versions, and certainly underpowered for USA expectations. A lot depends on your wallet, your ego, and urge to beat the guy beside you to the next red light.

Slow, as in slow to accelerate, I have no doubts.

Slow, as in cruisng speed, I don't know... I'd bet they would cruise all day at 70mph, admittedly with your right foot closer to the floor than you'd like.

Oh, I don't think the scooter would really stand a chance in top speed.

Best Regards,
Jim

Jason Beal · #13 01-09-2005, 02:48 AM

Between 94-99 what are the problems these models are known for?

I did a search on Epinions.com and people seemed to have nothing but great reviews for these things.

EDIT: Went and read the 140 thread, HOLY COW, if that ain't enough to keep me away from these I don't know what is!

Leaning back towards and E now.....

Hatterasguy · #14 01-09-2005, 06:53 PM

Well supposidly the later 97-99 models were pretty sorted out, also thats why I would want a more simple model. I figure since the S320/420's just have shocks the suspension shouldn't be anymore expensive or difficult to work on then my W126. The engines shouldn't be very troublesome, both were used with great reliabilty in the E class. The I6's blew head gaskets once in awhile, the M119 V8 is pretty close to flawless. The bodys can act up, stupid stuff like the door close assist can break. But I could live without the stupid options, I would try to fix them but if I couldn't oh well.

With any W140 just make sure the evap has been done, it is a $3k job and I wouldn't buy one unless it has been done.

I don't know W140's kind of scare me, an E430 might be a better choice.

AlexTheSeal · #15 01-09-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Well supposidly the later 97-99 models were pretty sorted out, also thats why I would want a more simple model.

Hattie, any particular reason why you said 97-99 here rather than 96-99? I was under the impression that 96 on was the years to look for in W140s (since 94-95 they used the disintegrating wire in the harnesses).

Also, I can see the attraction of the simpler and less-thirsty engines in the S320 or S420, and I'd probably get one of those over an S500/S600 for that reason, but why are you worried about the self-leveling suspension? If not neglected it's no more problematic than regular shocks/springs. After all, lots of W123 wagons are going around with the self-leveling working just fine after 20+ years.