Dear Forum,

I have just aquired a 1987 MB 560SEL with 120,000mi. I was wondering about what weak points this car has and what problems I should look for. Any recomendations of services (other than standard maintenance) that should be done before I make this car my new daily.

Thanks,

Aadm

Has it had a timing chain, tensioner, and guide rails? If you hear chain slap - don't drive it. Has the engine had a valve job? It will need one in the future - or at least valve stem seals.
The 560 has hydraulic suspension - has it been maintained? A fluid change should be done every two years (I think that is what the book calls for).
Front suspension work will probably be needed in the future.
Does it have green coolant? Flush and fill with either MB coolant or Zerex G-05 (yellow in color).
After I bought my 420 I immediately changed all the fluids and filters. That way I knew it had been done - cheap maintenance and peace of mind.
Do a search on 117 motors and 560SEL maintenance. That will give you more info.

I plan on changing all fluids before I drive it with MB stock. I did not hear any chain slap; but what does it sound like? I did notice that the power steering pump was not quiet while making hard turns.

Do the chains typically go at only 120,00mi? Also, in regards to a valve job; do you mean a full regrinding, relapping, or just a relashing? Do you only need to replace vavle stem seals if the car consumes oil?

Thanks a lot...

ATLD

Good question about the timing chains. I would also to be interested to know, because out of all of the S-Class sedans I have been considering- no one knows when it was last changed.

Would be nice to know of the warning signs of a worn chain/tensioners, before shelling out $1000+ for one if it is not really needed, but too scary to think about not have it changed, snapping and causing thousands in damage.

The 85 S-Class I am considering has 152K- timing chain replacement unknown.

The other "common" issue with the 560's are rear suspension woes.

I may be wrong, but I think that the timing chain and guides "issue" only applied to the 4.2 l engines, not the 5.6 l engine

Am I wrong?

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

Well timing chains are a complicated issue, do a search.

But the M116 V8 in the 420's you would be crazy not to do the chain at 100k, or every 10 years. Why because they are long with weak plastic guides, the guides get hard and will snap. A rebuilt engine is $6k-$8k.

Now the M117 in your 560 is stronger, but 120k is pushing it. You could probably push it to 150k though.

If it were my car I would just change the guides and chain and be done with it. But I could do it myself in a day for a couple hundred bucks.

If you are buying one and the owner says he doesn't know, that means no. Plan on changing the chain unless you have paper proof of it being done.

The M117's also seem to wear their cams kind of fast.

The valve stem seals do go bad and you will burn oil when they do.

This was an $70k new so it will require more maintaince then cheaper cars. MB are not low maintaince cars that is a myth.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Well with whatever everyone says about changing timing chains on those engines, I stand by keeping my original chain along with proper oil changes until 240 - 250K miles when I'll be needing valve jobs and other stuff on the top end of the engine. Of course I'm referring to my 500SEL.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

I have heard some people here and elsewhere mention that they have had NEWLY replaced chains snap and destroy the engine. Seems like sometimes you would be better to leave it alone. What would be nice is if there would be a simple way to check your chain, without having to remove parts. Seems like nonsense.

You can check the chain for stretch by taking off the valve covers. Not a very accurate means of checking if it needs replacement, but it is better than nothing I guess. I believe I fully expressed my stand on this timing chain issue to you in another thread several weeks ago.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Chain slap makes a sound similar to a hydraulic compensator (tappet) that has failed to pump up - but the noise does not last as long. If you have ever heard it you will know what it is.

ALL 116 and 117 engines are prone to timing chain failures - the chain, rails, and tensioner are the same for both engines. The chain should be checked for slack every 60,000 miles. I believe the manual says anything over 8 degrees off on timing the chain is stretched and needs to be replaced. I would not allow it to go past 5 degrees. The guide rails are plastic and become brittle over time. If they are dark brown then chances are they are original to the engine. Newer ones will appear to be off-white (with some discoloration from wear and oil).

If the car produces a puff of smoke when started (not from cold, but after it has been sitting for a while) chances are it needs valve stem seals. If it smokes all the time, then it more than likely needs a valve job. Mercedes says 1 qt. of oil per 800 miles is acceptable - most anyone here will tell you it is not.

The 126 cars were, in many people's eyes, the last true Mercedes produced in the 20th century (do not start a hate thread or debate over this, just reporting what I have read in books and on the internet). They are very dependable and have enough power for almost anyone. If they have been maintained properly they are wonderful cars. However, preventive maintenance is the key to keeping them on the road AND not breaking the bank. I have had my 420SEL for 4 years and have done quite a bit of work to it - mostly maintenance issues or cosmetic issues and I have been more pleased with this car than any other Mercedes I have owned. It came with a complete set of records so I knew exactly what had and had not been done. I also knew the previous owners and knew the car had not been abused.

If you are going to run your chain that long you really should change the guides at least.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Never heard anyone say anything regarding such timing chain changes on any other MB engines. What, do the diesels for instance have steel guides or something that never require changing?

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

The diesels are inline engines and have a shorter chain. The M103 and M104 6's can go very a very long time before you have to change the chain.

V8's tend to have long chains because they have two banks.

MB improved on the M117 and M116 with the M119 and now the M113.

Btw MB isn't the only car that needs this. The V8 in the Jag XJ8's wears them fast also. The top ones and the tensioners should be done every 60k-80k on the Jags. The lower chains however last longer.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Do the 560s m117 have double chains like the diesels? I assume that there is no valve lash adjustment because the valves are hydraulically opened etc.

Are any special tools reqd for changing the timing chain guides/rails. I have a chain peening/crimping tool that I used for my 300D's chain (which I did at ~200k mi and 3 deg of stretch), but I have read that the guides are more difficult to remove on the v8s than on the diesels.

Do the hears have to be removed for the valve seal replacement or can this be done from the top?

Any recommendations...

Thanks for all your input.

ATLD

Seems to me that the general rule on the timing chain/guides is l00K miles and/or 10 years. From what I have been told the chains will stretch somewhat but seldom break. Most of the problems come when the plastic guides get brittle after all those years and break, dropping into the chain and that causes major damage to the engine. So again, 100K miles and/or
10 years

__________________
1986 560 SEL (159K miles)