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  #1  
Old 12-20-2000, 03:20 AM
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Location: California
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What's the best brake upgrade you can do for this model cars.
Here are some of the posibilites I could think of, that might work. But,
Has anybody done any of these conversions?

(1) 500SL Calipers and Rotors ?
(2) 500E Calipers and rotors ?
(3) E420 Calipers and Rotors ?

Please advise.

Saliya

1992 400E (Euro H/L, Supersprint Muffler, Evo II Wheels, Bilstein sport & Eibach Springs)
1986 300E
1989 535i 5spd.
1994 Landcruiser

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  #2  
Old 12-20-2000, 03:44 AM
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Location: beaumont, texas
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hey saliya,

I kow this doesnt pertain to your question but how does the supersprint muffler sounds on your car? Does the noise enter the cabin or get anoying at freeway speeds? Any performance increases? Im considering a supersprint muffler for my 124 but want a throaty sound when accelerating but quiet when cruising.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2000, 10:03 AM
LarryBible
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Have you found your brakes to be inadequate? What is your intended use?

Good luck,
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2000, 12:29 PM
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Larry,

I can find the SL 129 Calipers for $100.00 each. From the reserch I did, I found that 500E has the same ones. Batter brakes are always an added advantage. My 89 535i has 91 M5 brakes with Porterfield Carbon/Kevlar pads and, it was a huge improvement over stock brakes. I just want to do something similar to the 400E since I'm doing some performance upgrades to get more power.

As far as the Supersprint Muffler, It'a pretty quite. Similar Muffler on BMW gives a more throatier sound.


Regards,

Saliya
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2000, 11:20 PM
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stainless steel brake lines $ 109 at bekkers.com,
might be a thought...


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  #6  
Old 05-02-2002, 03:39 PM
Harry
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Saliya,

Did you finish your brake upgrade yet? I am also interested in doing such a upgrade, could you share some of your experience with me? In terms of the caliper, did you mount it to the hub without any problem?

Harry
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2002, 07:23 PM
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Saliya,

you may want to do a search since brake upgrades are a really hot topic.

That being said, let me share with you information that I've managed to find out.

The 500E used 3 different types of calipers throughout its run.

Initially it used aluminum Brembo calipers and 295mm bi-directional rotors. These are easily identifiable as they are painted gloss black and have a white MB star painted on them. Incidentally, these are the same brake calipers that were used on the 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II and have Brembo reverse embossed on the backside of the caliper.

About midway though '93, they switched to cast iron calipers and a 300mm rotor, apparently off of the 500SL. These were an upgrade to the brembos as there was some concern about noise and warping rotors under heavy use.

Finally, they once, again upgraded the brakes. This time to 600SL brakes. These again, were cast iron calipers and used the same brake pads as the 500SL brakes, but the rotors were 320mm and uni-directional. This means that the vanes within the rotors were cast in such a way as to aid the cooling of the rotor as a result of the faster speeds and greater weight of the 600SL.
By using the same pads but a larger rotor, these brakes have the same swept area, but are able to exert more stopping power as a result of the increased leverage on the rotor.

NOW, in order to accomodate all of this and to deal with the greater stresses associated with the speeds and hadling that a 500E is capable of, the hubs on a 500E are from an R129 (500/600SL). if you examine the part numbers for the hubs, etc, you'll see that they begin with 129.

It is my understanding that the 400E DOES NOT share these components. The hubs on a 400E are W124 components and are closer in design to the stock 300E.

The proof of this is that the 190E 2.3-16 and 190E 2.6 have upgraded braking systems which are lifted directly from a W124 300E, and a 400E brake upgrade on either of these cars is a direct bolt-on.

It therefore stands to reason that a 400E shares the same components as a 300E.

Since upgrading the brakes on a 190E 2.3-16 or 2.6 to that of a 500E would require changing almost everything from the steering knuckle out, the only conclusion that can be drwan is that upgrading a 400E to use 500e brakes would require the same amount of modification.

If you go to a '95 E420, those brakes are, i believe, only about 3mm thicker than what exists on a 400E so, unless you get the calipers for free (or close to it) it's not really worth the effort.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but hopefully this answers your questions.

1) 500SL calipers and rotors are possible, but require more effort and money than it's probably worth unless you race your car.
2) see answer to #1
3)bolt on, but minimal gains

I am by no means any kind of authority on this topic, so feel free to get further opinions. In fact, I encourage it. However, if I were in your position, I'd leave the brakes as they are. The 400E already comes with 4 piston calipers and 11.6 inch rotors which is still respectable. If my sources are correct, these calipers are also used on the 300CE 2-door coupes.
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'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2002, 07:42 PM
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Yen-Hsen:

Great info - it helped me check on master cylinder requirements for converting a 300E to 400E brakes. If the CE uses the 4 piston calipers from the 400E, and a master cylinder change were essential, the master cylinders should have different parts #s. Since the master cylinder part #s are the same on the 300E and 300CE, this implies that the stock 300E cylinder is accceptable, no? (both the 300E and CE have the same #, which is different than the 400E number !!! )
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2002, 07:52 PM
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John,

I'm not 100% sure about the 300CE calipers. I've not had the chance to verify the information, so at this point it's second hand at best. However it is possible that the upgraded master cylinder is a result of the increased speeds of which the 400E is capable.

I would recommend to anyone who decided to significantly upgade their brakes to take a close look at their booster and master cylinder as well. IMHO you can't go wrong by upgrading them at the same time.
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'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2002, 08:09 PM
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my 1992 300ce has 4 piston front calipers.

The rears are 2 piston.

I feel my brakes are perfectly fine, but I don't race or do much high speed high G turning or anything like that.

Alon
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  #11  
Old 05-09-2002, 03:28 AM
Harry
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Saliya, or any one have the experience,

Did you finish your brake upgrade from 400E to the SL yet? I am also interested in doing such a upgrade, could you share some of your experience with me? In terms of the caliper, did you mount it to the hub without any problem?

Harry
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2002, 12:21 PM
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Stu Ritter, retired MB supertech, wrote an article in the MBCA Star magazine about his 400e brakes. With upgraded stainless steel brake lines, he reports that his 400e stops so hard that the tires will rotate around the wheel. Further braking improvements will just rotate the tire on the rim faster. (I can't imagine that this is good for the wheel balance weights.) He said that his car stops like a Formula 1 racer now. The 500e brakes, (plus stainless lines), would seem to be excessive.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2002, 01:48 PM
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I don't believe that there really is a need to upgrade the brakes on a 400E. Aside from the fact that the brakes on that car are already quite good, upgrading the brakes on that car is not as simple as bolting new calipers on.

Read my previous post if you want the nitty gritty details, but in a nutshell, to go to 500E or 500/600SL brakes EVERYTHING from the steering knuckle out would need to be changed. Period.

I looked into upgrading my 16v brakes to 500E brakes. The 16v, as some of you may not be aware, uses the braking system from the W124 300E. In order to accomodate the 500E brakes, I would have had to shell out more money than it's worth.

Unless you plan to race your car, 400E brakes should be ample.

I don't plan on racing my car, but if I come across a set of 400E/300CE brakes I'd upgrade them because I prefer the fixed caliper design to the stock floating caliper. but that's just me.
__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2002, 04:42 PM
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Eddy Lai in Vanouver has about the only non-MB AMG dealership anywhere, and is one smart cookie. He's the one that recommended the AMG suspension for my C230, and it's great!

He also sells big brake kits made by AMG. They're supposed to be pretty impressive.

www.performances.com
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2002, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yhliem
I looked into upgrading my 16v brakes to 500E brakes. The 16v, as some of you may not be aware, uses the braking system from the W124 300E. In order to accomodate the 500E brakes, I would have had to shell out more money than it's worth.
Yes, the 16V has beefier brakes than the other 190's. I found the 16V brakes not bad on the track, with fade coming only after some real abuse. The thing that killed me was eating up a set of pads AND disks EACH day. $$...

Remember folks, the 500E uses R129 bits, including the geometery. The suspension of the 500E has little in common with the other W124 cars. Those bits don't just bolt on.
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