Going back to the facts again:

1. The vfc was intentionally designed to operate BEFORE the aux fans
2. Mine and Phil's vfcs do
3. Phil's vfc (in water) does operate as MB specs - why, we cannot agree but it does
4. At thermal equilibrium, my 129 DOES runs at 85C

Are we comparing like for like here? To be honest I'm not sure who the OEM of my vfc is. Bahn, Sachs or aftermarket? I just don't know.


Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

you get?? You say all over the place?? My tech has a 'good' one and when you light the spot it seems to give reasonable readings. Be interested in seeing what they were.

BTW, I'm going to his shop tomorrow and I'll check on a price for a vfc if you are still interested in buying here and making the big-ship across the pond. I probably could get a good price but shipping probably raise it a goodly amount. Also I would perfer PayPal if you are a member; if not it might not hurt you to join. It the easiest and safest way to handle $$$ over the Internet. No need to answer now, let me see what a good price might be.
What's the part number you want???
I found it: Sachs 2100 015 031

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Hi Jim,

Since you are so willing to "Teach" us, and to impart and share your great knowledge with all of us, why don't you take 1 Minute of your time and "Teach" us EVERYTHING that you know.

I am certain that all will be willing to devote 1 minute towards this great, once in a lifetime educational experience.

Phil

__________________
'95 E300 Diesel, 264,000 Miles. [Sold it]

it would ony take 30 seconds because the receptor would overflow!

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Some more humour to lighten the thread - good stuff!

Jim, I guess you have some kind of affection for the 'Title' field as unfortunately we cannot read the first few words in there when replying and scrolling down.

Thanks for the offer on the vfc, much appreciated, but I have a couple of contacts who have offered to help and so I should be OK. But there's always complications - should I be concerned about shipping and the MB warning of upright only etc. I'm going to contact Sachs today and ask them direct about handling characteristics - I'll let you know what they say.

The IR temp meter is a handheld type manufactured by Fluke so isn't an 'el-cheapo' model but probably not one of the best either - mid range price I would guess at around 150GBP

Several times I repeated taking temp. samples of the top rad hose (in the same spot) and read several different measurements, +/- 8C.

I also tried just beneath the gauge sensor on the aluminium block but as the IR beam is 25mm at 200mm distance I couldn't be sure that it wasn't being deflected by obstacles (pipes and misc surrounding this area obstructing the line of sight). Measurements of less than 200mm are not recommended.

Also, even assuming perfect line of sight, the differing emissivity of material plays a significant part in the error so I'm not convinced by this technique at all.


So, thermocouples this weekend - the traditional approach!

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

. . my part but not sure about Phil!

You mentioned that before but I don't understand. My first comments are in the subject line as do a lot of forum members on ALL forums. Are you saying your 'browser' won't display the complete answer?? As far as I know all current browser should do that. Maybe it's something to configure?? I've run IE 5 thru 5.5 and now run IE6 w/ SP1, so not sure why yours is different.

It's raining buckets here in SD, so I may not go to my tech's shop today. But I will "see" what kind of price he can get for comparison. Personally, I had my old vfc (mods in the next para) and it sat on it's frame for 1-1/2 years; there was no 'leak' from the pin clutch when I removed it.

Yesterday, I 'modified' the afformentioned W140 vfc using the jbaj007 approach expect that I removed 0.030". After re-checking, it appears the there's a total of 0.070" (same measurement that I made before in MENU#20) travel of the pin clutch so I've removed about 42% of it. So we will see.

Not sure what brand my tech has but it's one that I've seen advertised in the Tool Warehouse publication; maybe $80, so your Fluke should be a good one.

So tc for you. . that will be interesting.

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Jim,

What Lea is saying is that the first few words of your reply start off in the "Title" Field and continue as the beginning of the body of your reply. So if someone does not read the "Title" field, than your first sentence makes no sense. Come to think of it, most of your replies don't make much sense anyway.

By the way, I appreciate the fact that vcfs and bms' are an extremely serious and important subject that should NEVER be taken lightly. But once in a while, as hard as I try, I can not control myself and I burst out laughing when this important subject comes up.

Phil

__________________
'95 E300 Diesel, 264,000 Miles. [Sold it]

Hi Jim

I'm sure Phil was jesting with you....

With regards to the missing text:

It's not a IE thing, rather a php setting somewhere maybe? I only have this trouble viewing your posts, no one else. Maybe it's something about the quote settings - is there an automatic quote feature you have enabled?

For me, when I hit the Reply Post button I see two edit boxes, the first says 'Title', the second 'Message', with this having the icons for formatting.

Your first line often shows bold then followed by the previous person's quote (I'm not sure why you re-quote either) but if I scroll downward to read the previous messages during reply I cannot see the first line.

See attched for a screen grab..

Vfc:
Ok, looking forward to a price. I completely forgot to ring Sachs yesterday so will have to wait until Tues now (we have a bank holiday Monday) and fogot to bring a few TCs home


Cheers
Lea

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

. . don't see the "title" line. Below is a screen shot of what I see when clicking on the this link to your post:
fan clutch?

Note mine frames from the 'top' whereas yours frames from the 'bottom'. I use 1024 x 768 screen resolution.

Sachs VFC: I didn't get a price because said you weren't really interested. But can get a price next week if you want.

Replace VFC: swapped my old vfc w/ an almost new vfc, same PN but with the shorter (removed 0.030") pin clutch. In driving around, it's 'half-engaged' as it should be but never did lock. Temps here is SD were 71F; engine topped at 95C w/ AC on.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

talk about a use of A/C and the vfc. Maybe we should?

Now that warmer weather is here, I normally use A/C. The climate control is normally set to 'auto' w/ 60F temp setting on each side of the N22 controller. The fan speed is set to a few 'notches' above MIN.

My point is that as soon as the refrigerant pressure gets to apx 15bar, the aux fans come on regardless of the engine temperature. We have not brought A/C into this discussion but if you use it as many do, for MY car, it's pretty difficult for the engine to get much past 95-98C.

The aux fans will always operate as needed to lower the refrigerant pressure. As a byproduct, it tends to lower the radiator temp which, in turn, makes it more difficult for the bms to 'heat'.

Strictly speaking, the use of A/C has nothing to do with the temp that causes the bms to bend enough to engage the VFC but from a practical standpoint makes it difficult to get the vfc into lock. Again these comments for my car. For other cars, it may help?

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Jim

I think you missed the point. The text is only missing after I've hit the Reply Button and scrolled down... you really should read the post thoroughly...


A/C

Maybe you need to visit the UK? It really doesn't call for A/C that much! A max of three months a year...

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Jim,

To follow-up on Lea's comments, to someone that does not realize that for some reason, your replies begin in the "Title' field, the rest of the reply, which is now missing the first few words, may not make much sense.

Come to think of it, your replies don't make much sense anyway. (Just exhibiting a small sense of humour Jim, so don't get exited).

Phil

__________________
'95 E300 Diesel, 264,000 Miles. [Sold it]

re-posted the thread that you deleted, albeit modifed. I guess you just couldn't resist. Yesterday you deleted the following post;

If you have some theories based on scientific fact, please advance them here. I and everybody else would like to see them.

But if continue as you have you are not doing this thread and yourself any good. I know you have some family problems (and we all hope she is better) and maybe that is the root, but your posts are rapidly showing yourself as a small, petty person of suspect character.

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

problem: hit "QUOTE" instead.

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Jim

Ok, we've gone way off topic here - but I don't understand why you fail to see my point about using the 'Post Reply' button and Title field usage. No-one (or maybe VERY few people) use 'Title' for their first line and it causes problems. I was only trying to point this out as you are obviously unaware. It's true not fiction and to try and assist I attached a grab to attempt to convince, but you still refuse to accept this is what's happening. I can do no more.

More importantly, I want to get the thread back online for all of us, so forget my comments about the Title edit field - we'll just put up with it.

Back to Vfc, tstat and cooling of 119 engines.

I've been wondering, has the W140 the same size rad as the R129. Remember that my engine is the 119.972 where yours is a 119.970 or 980. I'll check the part numbers...

BTW - I've asked several skilled mechanics over the weekend here in the UK about warm-up times of UK cars and all agree from 10-15 minutes is the average. So I cannot understand how yours heats in 2


Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg