The red Havoline I bought will simply go in the Suburban on it's next flush. Next trip by the dealer I'll get the "real" thing (and I don't mean Coca-Cola). That and the fancy water should do real well, especially since we have very, very hard water here. So hard, when taking a shower, it's like someone dumping a load of gravel on you .

__________________
Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

'02 CLK320 Cabriolet - wifey's mid-life crisis

2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

Non illegitemae carborundum.

I just completed my flush/fill & thermostat change and I had to add the coolant is actually orangish in color. It looks sort of red in the bottle.
The jug syas, "Mercedes Benz Antifreeze/Anti-corrosion agent"
Oooooh!!

Mike!

Whoa, slow down big guy! Havoline isn't just for GM cars like your Suburban! Here's a quote direct from their website:

Havoline® Extended-Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant: Lasts longer than conventional anti-freeze/coolants: Five year/150,000 mile protection. Effective, long term corrosion protection for all cooling system metals including aluminum, brass, cast iron, steel, solder and copper Extends water pump life. Outstanding hot surface aluminum protection.

Optimum year-round protection against winter freeze-up and summer boil-over. No silicate formulation eliminates silicate drop-out or gel formation. Excellent heat transfer. Excellent protection in high operating temperatures. Storage stable for at least eight years 100% biodegradable in its pure unused form Ready to pour.

Havoline® Extended Life Prediluted 50/50 Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL® is mixed 50/50 with deionized water No further dilution is necessary or recommended.
Applications Suitable for use in the cooling systems of all types of automotive engines

Meets American car manufacturers requirements

Meets Japanese car manufacturers silicate-free requirements

Meets European car manufacturers phosphate-free requirements

Or Prestone's website: http://www.prestone.com :"Prestone Extended Life 5/150 antifreeze/coolant is a silicate and phosphate-free formula, which provides extended performance and protection against rust and corrosion to all cooling system metals, including the lightweight aluminum found in many radiators. In addition, Prestone Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant meets all compatibility requirements for GM DEX-COOL® Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant, which is recommended for most 1996 and later General Motors vehicles."

Or even, and in some ways, more importantly, Zerex's website for their G 05 (Glysantin!) corrosion inhibitor product: http://www.valvoline.com/products/cooling/technicalbulletin/tb_zerex_antifreeze.html "Valvoline’s Glysantin G 05 antifreeze coolant is a long life, universal ethylene glycol-based formulation suitable for passenger cars, light trucks and heavy duty vehicles. The formulation is designed for both gasoline and diesel engines. Its low-silicate, low pH, phosphate free European technology protects all cooling system metals, including aluminum, from corrosion. Glysantin G 05 is a precharged coolant designed to protect diesel engine cylinder liners from cavitation. It contains a reduced silicate level for universal compatibility.

This thread has become too damn long, I'm breaking out, and starting a whole new thread. Look for it...

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

I think it is OEM for Toyota and Lexus also.

...and it's just not bad for cats only, anymore!!

Longston

I checked the bottles of the coolant again, and it says Mercedes Benz Antifreeze/Anti-corrosion agent, conforming to sheet no: 325.0 It also states that it is for the cooling system etc. Like it or not, the color is blue. It also stated Nitrite-free in the front label. Maybe that is the specs for Europe.

I am located in the tropical zone, and I have put in 2 bottles of 1.5 liter each into my 260E, mainly for anti-corrosion and coolant. Temp in my country never goes below 20C.

Green-->Yellow-->Red-->Pink-->Orange-->Blue

Are you sure you guys are talking about coolant? It sounds
like Skittles-bite size candy.
Taste the rainbow,
your car that is.

I have not checked out this thread since there were only a few replies. I'm not going to read all 49, so what I say may be redundant. If so I apologize.

To balance the PH and eliminate any electrolysis effect in the cooling system as MB antifreeze claims to do, simply use an additive called Nalcool. It is available at your diesel truck parts shop. You know, where you see a Cummins, or Caterpillar sign.

This additive came out some 25 years or so ago. Due to the electrolysis effect in the over the road cooling systems, they used zinc plates in the system as a sacrificial metal to prevent the system from corroding away. Once Nalcool was developed, they stopped putting the zinc plates in the cooling system.

Had I had Nalcool in my 300E, I'm sure I would not have experienced the head corrosion problem that I had. I now have Nalcool added to the antifreeze. One of the best automotive chemicals ever invented. Check it out.

Have a great day,

CJ,

Get that stuff out of your cars system now!

The MB coolant is a little orange/redish color and that is what you should use in your car, NOT the green stuff. They say MB coolant is formulated with a different PH, its more basic. You should flush it a lot with water and get 2 jugs of the coolant. For your car you will need about 1 and a half jugs. Its easier to premix it before putting it in your car. They say the green stuff is bad for water pump, gaskets, etc. I dont know how accurate that is, but its better to be safe than sorry.


Johnson

Larry,

I don't know what coolant you were using, or are still using that you are adding Nalcool to, but I am being advised that unless you use an Antifreeze/coolant with a phosphate corrosion inhibitor (all green coolant except Sierra), you don't need to add Nalcool, or any other similar additive to it.

The current (pardon the pun..) antifreeze/coolants that have Organic Acid corrosion inhibitors (Amber, Orange, Red) do not cause electrolytic cavitation.

This is just one more very good reason not to use a green coolant in your Mercedes.

Johnson,

You're too late, CJ changed the coolant already!

s60,

The variety of colors have to do with different auto manufacturers specs, and people's ability to describe color. Whether you call it amber as my local Mercedes dealer does, or red, as the local Saturn dealer does, or pink, or ocre, they are all advanced technology coolants that do not contain phosphates, and may, or may no contain varying levels of silicates. A representative of Valvoline told me that there are actually over 15 different colors of coolants. One shade to match your mood on any given day.

Lim,

I'm still looking into this blue coolant. So far, I have only heard from one person who has ever seen it, and they couldn't say if it was MB coolant or not. Did you buy it from a Mercedes dealer? Do other Mercedes owners in Malaysia also use it? Perhaps it is a European, or Asian only product. The products used by MBUSA, and sold in the US are supposedly different than the European products. Hey, how about taking a picture of this blue stuff and posting it here so we can all see it?

Perhaps one of our members in Europe and AustralAsia can tell us what color the coolant is that they use over there. I will email a couple of them and ask them to comment.

For my addational comments and synopsis, go to my thread called, Red v Green, Part Deaux...

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

I think the red coolants basically have some of the elements of Nalcool already in them. If you are using plain old, garden variety antifreeze with Nalcool, I think you're accomplishing a similar result.

Have a nice weekend,

I did change my coolant, but to be safe I am going to change it in about 500 miles, just to remove any minute traces of green they may remain.
I feel like I should be putting on a MR YUK sticker on any MBZ that has green coolant in it.

I recently got a mail message from Longston with the request whether I wanted to add something to this thread (which I had not read yet, because we do not share the US colors) about the color of the coolant used in europe.

He told me someone from malaysia was talking about blue coolant...and he was wondering whether I could enlighten anyone about that blue color...

Well, I took the time to read most of the posts in this thread and think I will not be able to enlighten anyone!

The color of the MB coolant used in europe is clear/yellow! The coolant has to be mixed with water (50/50) and is slightly yellow colored.
We do have blue colored coolants as well, but that is not subscribed by mercedes (and therefore not used for MB vehicles), but is used for (and subscribed by) volkswagen and opel.

I hope this will not make the coolant color thread more complicated, but....since I was asked to post something about euro coolant...!

greetingz,

__________________
1990 300SL-24
1993 C250D with a minor 600+k kilometer
www.MBenzNL.com(the Netherlands)

About the blue coolant...
I remember one purchasing BMW coolant to put in my 325e from the dealer, and much to my surprise the coolant was actually BLUE. It was phosphate free, and no I am not imagining things nor did I put windshield wiper fluid in my cooling system

First order of business is to clarify the use of Nalcool as Larry Bible suggests.

Larry, you are a senior member, and an individual with 800K + miles in Mercedes vehicles, and someone whom I, as well as numerous other members, respect and rely on for accurate and factual information. However, I'd have to say that my research and experience with commercial vehicles tells me that you are way off the mark with your last posting.

First of all, the cost of a Phosphate Corrosion Inhibitor type coolant (the Green Stuff) added to the following costs for adding NalCool: S0621 NALCOOL 2000-2, Form: Liquid $32.00 or S0620 NALCOOL 2000-1, Form: Liquid $25.00, is at best, prohibitive, and would NOT achieve the same overall quality of results for the average Mercedes owner as just using MB coolant. Besides, just to be accurate, NalCool has changed its name to PenCool, see: http://www.penray.com/bulletins/nalcool.htm

Second of all, NalCool is ONLY "suggested" as an additive to Cummins and Detroit diesel truck engines that were shipped from their factories with Texaco (Havoline) coolant in the cooling system. The reason for this is the simple fact that SCAs (Specialized Corrosion Additives) are required in all diesel engines (Cummins & Detroit) with wet sleeves (press in cylinder liners).

The difference in the two metals, added to the high vibration present in those engines, combined with the Phosphate corrosion inhibitors present in the Green coolant interacting with even moderately "hard" water, is what actually causes the electrolytic cavatation in the first place. While a small amount of SCA can sometimes be beneficial even in small diesel engines (as SCAs containing borate/nitrite or molybdate/nitrite/phosphate are designed to inhibit cavitation, erosion, corrosion, and scale formation), testing for proper SCA content needs to be done at least twice a year, and the proper amount SCA needs to be added as needed, based on cooling system capacity, as well as on the results from the testing.

The overuse of SCA results in an overcharged system and will cause cooling system problems (green goo). This is the reason a test MUST BE DONE and the proper amount of SCA must be used.

Bottom Line - Don't use anything that the manufacturer of your engine does not recommend!

The first part of this thread started out with CJ asking if you could mix the "Green" coolant with the "Red" coolant, and after several posts, I happened to suggest the following two links, courtesy of an older thread, and Kent Christensen: http://www.imcool.com/articles/anitfreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htmand www.valvoline.com/products/cooling/technicalbulletin/tb_zerex_antifreeze.html" .

After all the dust that has been kicked up, I still suggest reading the info on those two links.

I had decided, in the interest of clarity, to start a new thread on this topic. But unfortunately, I can't be sure y'all have read it! So, here's a redacted version of the new post that I have now added to this post...:

I'm not at all interested in promoting "brand" names, and would never specifically suggest the use of Havoline, PEAK, Sierra, Prestone, Zerex, or any other brand of coolant...

But what I have discovered from all of my research is the following:

1.) ALL green coolant, with the possible exception of Sierra, and/or Prestone No-Tox Propylene Glycol based coolants (approved by the ASPCA), are Ethylene Gylcol Based coolants that contain silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrites, and/or amines as part of their corrosion-inhibitor package. The elimination of several of these additives is significant because many, but not all, of them, combined with minerals in suspension, are abrasive to water pump seals. And the abrasion of those water pump seals results in water pump failure!

2.) Any and all of the Non-Green-Coloured coolants' corrosion inhibitors are based on organic acids (carboxylate) and do not contain nasty phosphates or the like.

3.) We should all be able to use just about any amber, red, orange, and/or pink coolants with a 50/50 mixture of de-ionised, de-mineralized, and/or distilled water in our Mercedes' cooling systems without fear. (Except 60/40 for Minnesotans, and other folks in fridgid regions where some fargen bastage might freeze his or her icehole, yeh, fer sure.)

4.) Any brand of coolant you choose to use that is a current "extended life" product is most likely to both be non-green in color, and compatible with your Mercedes cooling system (with the exception of voiding the warranty on newer cars if it ain't MB coolant, but if it's the same color, well...who's to know?) However, we must consider the following:

5.) Mercedes has been on the "cutting edge" of this antifreeze/coolant technology for some time.

6.) The automotive "community" has figured out that MB was on to something, and is already "re-formulating" all of their "recommended" coolants to something quite similar to what Mercedes uses.

So, I would feel confident to recommend the use of just about any coolant that uses an "Organic Acid Corrosion Inhibitor" (Carboxylate) in its formulation in your Mercedes.

So the final winner of the original question, in my book, is RED! Well, uh, Amber, or uh, Orange, or maybe Pink, I guess...

Just NOT GREEN...Unless you want to be P.C. (politicly Correct), and then it's Sierra, or Prestone No Tox. But, well, just don't mix colors of coolants. Stick with one kind, to be safe...

And to CJ: If you throughly flushed you cooling system, you should be good for another 30,000 miles to 3 yrs at least. Oh, and can we assume that the thermostat change fixed your heating problem, CJ?

Remember that the opinions expressed on this forum are simply the opinion(s) of the individual poster(s), and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the general membership at large, previous posters on this thread, MercedesShop, Mercedes Benz, and/or Daimler Chrysler. MercedesShop is in no way affiliated with, or endorsed by Mercedes Benz, and/or Daimler Chrysler. The advice given here is strictly to be used for entertainment purposes only, and there are no warranties expressed or implied as to the quality, or factual basis of any and/or all of the information posted on this forum. And always remember kids: "MercedesShop.com, LLC takes no responsibility whatsoever for any technical assistance offered by anyone in the Shop Forum. The Risk is 100% yours.." Your mileage and other results may vary...

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."