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  #1  
Old 07-11-2005, 10:25 AM
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Location: Houston, TX
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M104 pin 8 code 13 question

pin 8, code 13 states: "O2S (Lambda) control system operating at rich or lean limit"

which would seem to me to indicate a bad O2 sensor, but not code is showing up on the #2 pin, so I'm not sure if this is correct. Any ideas?

Also, I've been trying to find the exact location on where the oxygen sensor is on my car, and I know it's under the front passenger side of the car, but where exactly, and how do I gain access to it? Thanks

John

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  #2  
Old 07-11-2005, 10:55 AM
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No, that code doesn't mean that the O2 sensor is defective!

It means that computer imputs have caused the computer to go to a maximin adjustment factor! All the way RICH or LEAN.

Vacuum leaks, fuel pressure, OR defective air mass sessor are the most common problems
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2005, 11:04 AM
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I agree .. First look are the easy ones .. see if there is gas in the vac line at the pressure regulator ..common
..then look EVERYWHERE for vac leaks,
..also even a plugged/dirty A/F can bring this code up
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2005, 11:58 AM
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Thanks, M.B. DOC & Arthur


A coupe more questions:

Where is the pressure regulator located?

What's the easiest way to check for vacuum leaks? I've seen several ways to do it in previous threads, so I just wanted to know the quickest/least involved way.

Thanks
John
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Last edited by JMaxwell; 07-11-2005 at 12:29 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2005, 12:11 PM
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Location: Florida / N.H.
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PR is the can at the front of the fuel rail .. over by the termo housing .. it has a vac hose hooked to it .
There should be no gas evidence in the hose or you have a ruptured reg diaphragm .. allowing both too high a FP and raw gas getting sucked into the engine .. so you can see how this would easily upset the A/F mixture .
vac leaks are just searched for , check every hose ,, suspect on that chassis are around the throttle/intake area and under the engine front plastic cover ,, the white plastic line going to the SOVs is infamous and many Techs just can that line and go with a full length rubber one [ the plastic ones crack and break from heat fatigue]
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2005, 01:07 PM
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My 94 E320 had the same code, after checking/replacing all the other items on the list, replacing the Engine Control Module finaly fixed the problem. My car did not have any drivability issues, but I did not like the illuminated check engine light!!

Takes about 5 mins to replace the ECM. Dealership wanted $2200 but I got one from the salvage yard for around $150. It was from a 95 E320. I did not have to program it, as the car it came from had the same California Emissions, Traction Control etc.

If you take your car to the dealer, they will probably look at the live adaptation values as they swap out components like the O2 sensor, MAS, ECM etc. with known good ones to find the root cause.

Electronics on these cars are unreliable, OVP, Fuel Pump realy, Compressor Control Relay, Aux Fans and/or relays, AC Push Button units are a few items that have an above average failures rates on this model.

The Fuses may appear good visually but maynot be working. Also, the wiring harness disintegrates, creating short circuits, which maybe the root cause for the above average electrical issues.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2005, 01:24 PM
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I'm curious about the foundation upon which Mr. Z. makes the statement that electronics on these cars are unreliable. Compared to what? I don't know anybody who attempts to use a Honda or Toyota or Lexus that age for daily transportation. So it's difficult to make even an anecdotal comparison on how the cars hold up.

Some older discussions with Steve Brotherton regarding the reliability and cost of driving an older Lexus were interesting. The general concensus is that Lexus does perhaps require fewer repairs, but the cost of parts and labor is frequently higher. The end result is that driving an older Lexus is no cheaper than driving an older Benz, and may well be more expensive.

- JimY
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2005, 01:51 PM
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Jim,

You are correct I have not based my assumptions on any statistical anaylsis of data, as I do not have any data!!

It is based on anecdotal comparison however. Comparing other cars I have owned over the years and talking to owners of various older cars eg 92 Eagle Talon, 89 Mitsubishi Galant, 90 Toyota Camry etc. they have not even heard of some of the problems we experience as MB owners. Some of these vehicles had close to 200,000 miles. I have also visited a few Lexus forums and they do not mention any of the componets listed above. They do have issues with instrument cluster/AC displays etc. on the earlier models.

JD Powers reports that a 10 year old Lexus LS400 is more reliable than a new 7 series BMW.

Failure of MAS occurs on some newer MB in the high 20, low 30K range!

A typical MB MAS is around $200, for the LS430, it is $900! but the design (optical) is such that it will probably not fail.

Having said that, reliability is not the only factor which determines whether you like your car or not.

As some suggest, "MB has character that elevates it beyond a mere transportation device"
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Last edited by zafarhayatkhan; 07-11-2005 at 02:08 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2006, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Motor City, MI
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Now my car (95 E320, 71K) is giving me the pin 8, code 13 problem. This is in addition to the pin 2, code 3 (Lambda control faulty).

I've replaced the O2 sensor, air mass meter, checked for vacuum leaks, and checked for fuel in the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line. Codes were erased before rereading to prevent reading spurious codes. Wiring harness was replaced some time ago. The car runs fine, except that the air pump runs constantly and my gas mileage is down (21 mpg, mixed driving).

I changed the air mass meter because I was getting pin 2, code 4 (Air injection system faulty hot film mass air flow sensor with hot wire). Now I get code 3. Pin 8, code 13 hasn't changed.

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