so guys, can we just put the r12 substitute in the system wo purging and vacating the system? i hope, i hope!

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

TOM, TOm, Tom, sigh.....

R12 can be purchased for a mere $14 per pound these days. It will certainly work with the R12 lubricant. Is it really worth risking the health of your compressor to save the difference in whatever refrigerant you are thinking about and $14 per pound? Are you aware of the consequences of a failed compressor? When this happens it scatters debris all through the system and the ENTIRE system has to be THOROUGHLY flushed, o-rings and r/d replaced. Is it worth such risk?

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Best of luck with whatever path you take,

thanks, thanks, thanks

for the info and scolding.

as you can easily see, my ignorance of ac matters is vast.

i will simply get some r12. can you get it at most parts places now?

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

No, you have to have a license, but it is very easy and costs $15 to get. Go to www.imaca.org, pay $15 and take an online, open book test.

I buy R12 from www.refrigerantsales.com in 30 pound jugs for $14.06 per pound. Other members here have bought it cheaper than that. Do a search on R12 and you should be able to come up with all sorts of sources once you have your license.

Good luck,

***This is not a suggestion - Nor a debate starter***
***Just an experience I had with an "A/C expert" who claims to have worked with automotive A/C for over 30 Years, he is retired)****
I just want to know what type of "substitute" you were planning to use in your system.
I met this gentleman (by chance) here in NC who just "dropped" the Enviro-Safe stuff (with DYE) in his R-12 system.
***It is illegal to do that***
He claimed he had it for a few days (until it leaked out completely).
He claimed it was blowing 35 degrees out the vents on 95 degrees and 75% humidity day.
To make a long story short, the dye showed where the leak was, he fixed the leak, pulled a vacuum and just "dropped" the R-12 in the system after fixing the leak.
He rationalized that Enviro-Safe with dye was a very cheap way to get his A/C running for a few days while the leak was going on (and showing up).
He also claimed that it would not hurt the A/C system, the environment, or his pocket.
Just a funny story.
I did a search and found that HC refrigerants are NOT illegal in NC, but it is illegal to "drop it" in an R-12 system. It is legal to use it on R-134 systems.
I have read MANY articles, scientific explanations, studies, opinions, Etc....
On what a LOT of people have to say about HC refrigerants (good and bad).
My opinion on the subject?
Whatever you decide to do, it is your business.
Please inform yourself before you make decisions (but make sure you read what both sides say, not just one side of the fence)

__________________
1999 Porsche 996 Carrera Convertible
1994 420E - SOLD
1986 300E - SOLD, what a car
609 Certified

for the second opinion. i will look at that too.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Up here in Canada we don't have r12 available. I'm running an HC refrigerant in an r12 car (not my Benz) and have had no problems. I have found a source for r12 for my Benz and will run that as long as I can. When, not if my source dries up I will switch to HC and not convert to 134. At that time I will add straight to the r12 since none of the r12 up here is re-used anyway.

Jorg

the r12 sub what you are referring to as HC?

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Yes, the substitute 89-300ce refers to is the same thing as Enviro-safe (a Hydrocarbon or HC, it is marketed under a whole bunch of different names but is the same thing). It is a mixture of propane and isobutane, I think.
I also believe it is completely legal to drop the HC on R-12 systems in Canada.

__________________
1999 Porsche 996 Carrera Convertible
1994 420E - SOLD
1986 300E - SOLD, what a car
609 Certified

I can't imagine what it will be like inside a car which has propane in the air conditioning system, when the evaporator ruptures while driving down the road, and dumps 2 pounds of a propane-isobutane mixture into the passenger compartment. Sounds like Apollo-whatever.
Or a hose in the engine compartment ruptures, and it's a hot time under the hood.

Do what Larry says. Use R-12, do it right make it cold. Take the test on line (my 7 year old can pass it). And then buy the R-12 in one pound cans online at E-bay. E-bay will require a licence for you to purchase R-12.

John Roncallo

i appreciate all the posts. perhaps will do the lic thing.

also would appreciate comments re the propane mix r12 sub.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

HC's are very common up here.

Jorg