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  #1  
Old 02-10-2001, 01:34 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
I'll make a long story short, I've determined that the water pump is leaking.

Thought it was the radiator, but I ran some water through it and caught the leak.

So, anyone have any idea what an _approximate_ estimate on this should be? I've gotten a quote from an MB shop, not a dealer, and I was just wanting to see if it was inline.

Also, is this something that would be considered difficult to work on myself, or should I leave it up to the pro's?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2001, 02:26 AM
unkl300d's Avatar
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Location: San Francisco, Ca
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2 cents worth... I look at my C280
engine compartment and I know their is no way I'm
going to begin dismantling stuff like that.
Yes. I won't brave it on that car.
I like it too much!

You know your own limits!
good luck.
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1979 300D 199 K miles
1995 C280 95 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
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1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2001, 04:08 PM
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Location: NW Arkansas
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O.k., thanks for the response. This seems like a really good forum, I'm looking forward to participating.

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2001, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
Thanks for the response.

It is a 1994 C280 with 108k miles.

Do I get the manuals on CD from MBUSA? Do you have the number or is it on their website?

After looking at the manuals, I may get a little more brave.

Thanks.
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2001, 03:05 PM
MikeTangas's Avatar
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If the CD-ROM for your car is available, you can get it right here at the PartsShop. You can also check out the price and availability of a new pump too. Just click the PartsShop tab at the top of the page.
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Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2001, 04:45 PM
LarryBible
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DW,

Given the time of year, are you sure that this is not a freezing weather leak?

In really cold weather, you will sometimes get a cold weather weeping from the shaft. The shaft shrinks because of the cold and it will weep a little. If this is the case, I would not replace the pump for that purpose.

If it is a larger leak and it is indeed coming from the water pump, you will, of course, have to replace the pump.

Good luck,
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2001, 05:18 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
It's a pretty good leak. It will empty nearly all the antifreeze/water with 24hrs. of filling it.

Adsit had the pump for $259.00, same price my shop quoted me and the shop wanted about $200 labor+tax to install it. That's five hours for them.

And, unfortunately, I don't see the CD available for the 202 here.

Where else can I go?
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2001, 08:02 PM
someguyfromMaryland
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c280 water pump r&r

I noticed nobody answered your question of what it would take to replace the wp. I just did this job on a 1991 300TE with the M103 engine. I believe the C280 has the same engine with a smaller bore, same block and everything. Book rate on an M103 wp is 4 hours, if I recall (Larry Bible help me out if you can). I did the serp belt tensioner, shock, water pump, and air pump all together so I can't give you an itemized list, but I'd guess over 4 hours for a DIY after you get the fan and shroud off, etc...
Very do-able if you have the ambition, I hate to pay others for work I can do as well (IMHO).

YMMV. Good luck!

mike yox
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2001, 10:59 PM
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Location: NW Arkansas
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Did you have the CD or book manuals?

I believe the engines are very similar. I6 and the water pump is just to the right-front of the dipstick.

So, remove the fan/radiator, let loose of all the hose clamps/hoses, remove the pump, replace...

You did serp belt tensioner, shock, water pump, and air pump all at the same time? Cool. Any "weird" tools I might need to know about? I guess the manuals would tell me that.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, very helpful.

OT: I know what you mean about paying others for work you can do yourself. My wife and I just built a house and we did as much as we felt we were capable of doing...siding (fiber cement), paint (in/out), flooring, etc.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2001, 01:01 AM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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The W202 C-class does not have manuals yet. They are supposed to be out sometime later this year though.
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2001, 08:12 AM
LarryBible
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Mike Yox,

I'm not very familiar with the W202 cars, but I think they were built AFTER the M103 engine was out of production, at least for the 124 cars use.

I expect that the C280 is the M104 engine which as far as the water pump job goes is similar.

IF it is similar to the M103 in this area, there are a few simple special tools that you will need. There is a 1/4" size bent rod that is used to hold the fan in place while loosening the center bolt with a special short allen socket. The 1/4" bent rod you could make out of something if you had to. I don't know about the allen socket. There is limited clearance between the fan and the radiator, so you really need the special short socket. Again this information applies IF it is similar to the 124 with M103.

Your best bet is to find a manual or a CD. I expect that there is not a lot of magic involved in this job beyond removing the fan and knowing how to correctly tension the drive belt when you're finished. BTW, I would plan on replacing the drive belt while you're there. Also inspect the tensioner mechanism and be prepared to replace it if necessary. I would not replace the tensioner if it is in good shape as a preventive maintenance step.

Good luck,
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2001, 11:47 AM
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I have a 1995 C280. As Larry says, it is the M104. The layout is similar to the M103, but there are several issues to deal with. The shroud is a two piece affair; pull the hose clip at the top and turn. Be careful to get all the pins engaged going back together. The fan/fan clutch is very difficult to remove on a C Class because the fan is closer to the radiator than on an E Class. The M/B tool is too long once mounted on a ratchet or breaker bar. I recently bought an 8mm ratchet box wrench. I intend to cut off a piece of an 8mm allen wrench to use with the ratchet box wrench; this will give more clearance than the other options. It is hard to engage the fan lock tool; I bent a long piece of 1/4" steel rod to suit and had to unplug a connector on the upper timing cover. You will have to unbolt and shift to the side the A/C Compressor and P/S Pump. It is a job that requires some patience on the C Class.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2001, 07:33 PM
someguyfromMaryland
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more on c280 wp leakage

Larry Bible is right on the button with the pain and suffering on the fan bolt. I have a 300TE so I have a little more room, but here's a trick I've used before. Cut a 5 mm allen key on the long (handle) side. Take about an inch or inch and a half off. Put the stub in the bolt head, then either use a 5 mm combo wrench or a small socket on it to remove the bolt. I've used this strategy on several really tight allen head bolts with great success. The transfer case fill plug on my 4matic is a 14 mm allen head plug and the $20 allen head socket will hit the friggin' exhaust pipe with a ratchet on it. I put the socket in the bolt and bust it loose with a 14 mm combo. Works like a champ.

The rod for holding the fan clutch still while loosening/tightening is supposed to be 3/16", not 1/4" (per the manual, honest!) I know that's close, but I have a 3/16" piece and it works like nobody's business and I've heard of others besides those in this thread complaining about how their "self-made" tool did't work well. The chrome plated heavy duty hangers you usually have at work tend to be exactly 3/16" OD, don't ask me how I know.

As for special tools, most pros have the Snap-on flex drive allen wrench for the water pump bolts in the back, but it can be done with straight extensions and a combo wrench(royal PITA). Three of the wp bolts are hex head and on mine, the bottom forward bolt was an allen head. Don't ask me why, that's what I had and I guarantee it was original. I have the manuals and CDs so I printed the specific pages out of the cd's for all of the work so I wouldn't have to flip flop through and smear even more grease on the pages of the manual than there already is.

Another BTW, the tensioner is mounted with a y-shaped bracket. The bottom of the y is to the passenger side. The passenger side bolt hole is open to the engine through the timing cover and a common leakage point. This is a great opportunity to clean the hell out of the area and reseal this point with non-MB approved orange hi-temp silicon Permatex. Apply sealant to both sides of the bracket (engine side and bolt side). My front doesn't leak anymore!

And last (I promise), this is also an obvious good time to replace the drive belt. The tensioner is much easier to set than the manual shows, too.

Mike Yox
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2001, 08:23 PM
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Location: Chesapeake, VA
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I think we may be getting models confused. I also had a 300TE (M103) and used the cutoff allen wrench trick (8mm - not 5mm - I just measured it). It is near impossible to use on the C280. That is why I bought the MB tool for the C280. I can force it into the bolt and break it loose, but cannot thread it out far enough to rotate the bolt with my fingers. That is how I came to the 8mm ratchet box wrench idea. My pulley tool is .225" - I think 3/16 (.1875") would be too loose, and it can cock and distort the hole. I used to use the peg hook tool also. It won't work on this engine - way too short. It is a pain to get the tool engaged in the pulley on the M104 anyway, with the additional gingerbread at the front of the head. I never had much luck pulling the pump without loosening the A/C Compressor and P/S Pump. I know the techs do it, but I wasted more time trying and just bit the bullet - it wasn't that bad. I worked on the front of the engine in the 300TE several times in 250,000 miles and it was easy. I've been into the C280 twice (belt and later an idler pulley) and it is an entirely different, far more time consuming operation.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2001, 09:45 AM
LarryBible
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Cutting an Allen and using sockets and wrenches is not a bad suggestion.

At a time when my funds were very limited, I rebuilt the engine in my '68 230 manual, what a neat car it was.

I took a set of Allens and cut off a 5,6 and 10. I then used sockets and wrenches and rebuilt the engine. I still have those little hunks in my toolbox, but have since bought some better metric allen tools in my more prosperous years.

Also, I wasn't stating that the tool was 1/4", I just thought it was in that general range. I hope this caused no one any trouble.

There's nothing like expediency,
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