This one is a 300 TE Wagon with approximately 155K on it. I am simply overjoyed to finally give my wife transportation that doesn't fit the 4000+ pound mode for her daily driving. Minivans are fine and all, but I'd really rather have both of us drive something that can fit in the our garage and, well, drives like a Mercedes.

I tend to be mechanically inclined but there are three things wrong on this one that may common to the lineage.

First we have the transmission shifting a little hard. The vehicle never shifts late and the transmission fluid is in good shape. I realize that their is a vaccum actuation system going on here but I honestly don't know how to track the problem down and replace what's needed. Any suggestions or thoughts? Even a link would help.

Second, the coolant temperature varies between 80 -99 degrees centigrade. I noticed a few things maintenance wise that may be related to this. The radiator, plugs and wires, alternator and battery all look to be new. I also found that the shop that reconditioned this car put in green fluid instead of the Zerex. I'm going to put in Zerex this weekend to remedy that. The cooling fan is coming on with a veangence but the opposite fan that is closest to the engine is rotating at what I would state as a 60% clip. Enough for their to be plenty of blur but not enough for me to think that it's doing it's job. When the vehicle is in park the temp will stay at around 85-90 but once you have stop n' go traffic the range increrases to about 20 degrees centigrade. Any ideas to track this down would be great.

Third, oil pressure is highly erratic on this one and I'm wondering whether it's a gauge problem or an oil pump problem. When I start up the vehicle the oil pressure gauge shoots well north of 3. If I drive on the highway for the first ten to fifteen minutes after it's fully warmed up it will stay at three but... once I start to do the stop n' go it will go down to 2 and sometimes to 1. It will go to 7/10's at idle but even if I rev it constantly it will go no higher than the 1.5 mark after about twenty minutes. I need to determine whether it's a fouled up gauge or whether something actually needs to be replaced on it.

I really look forward to making this car work. I've had two other 89's and gave them to enthusiasts, one of whom came nearly 2 hours to pick one up. I'm an auto auctioneer so the buying and selling of vehicles has always come naturally, and with it the tendency to work on them as well. To give you a grasp of how much I like this particular model, I am seriously considering selling a pristine Audi A8 because I find this wagon to be a more fun and durable piece of machinery. I'm also sending a 1996 E300 diesel to Florida and to be perfectly honest, I prefer driving the 89' model. The connection with the road and quality of workmanship in the W124 is two clicks above that particular generation. Thanks again for all your help and I hope all is well...

macarose

Sounds to me like your car is running in the proper temperature range.

I think your t-stat doesn't even begin to open until about 87 degrees, and then is not fully open until just above 100 degrees.

The fans you see turning are running in tandem at slow speed. They don't go on high speed until about 110 degrees. However, both should be turning at the same speed, either on high speed or low speed.


I also don't think there is anything wrong with your oil pressure or the guage.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

MACAROSE: Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the bortherhood of the W124/300TE. These are great cars, great people haulers, great "thing" hauler.

As for the weight thing, I think that the 300TE weighs close to 2 tons. I tried looking it up but could not find the actual weight figures. Still, these are very substantial cars, heavy and solid.

As for your questions, I think that your car is operating in the correct temperature range. As long as you are not in the red, then you are good. But if you are concerned about the operating temperature, check out the following link:

http://pages.prodigy.net/jforgione/MB_S500.html

Jim has good information regarding how to lower operating temperature. He also sells a wiring harness that tricks the aux fan into kicking in at a lower temp, thus helping to cool the engine.

I think that the oil pressure gauge may be off. My 300TE runs at full oil pressure when the engine is under load (accelarating or going up a hill). I think that yours is running too low. This is especially so in light of the fact that it seems to run normally at first, but then drops.

I'd have it checked out.

Finally, I would agree with you that the W124 is more of a "traditional" Benz. But the moderm Benzes are just as much a Benz as the older ones. We also own a 2002 C320 Sports Wagon. That wagon is a hoot to drive, it is fast, it corners flat and it handles very safely. The C320 has a number of toys and gadgets than the W124 does not have and to be honest with you, I do like the new toys.

I'd probably keep the W124/300TE as long as I can (probably longer) but there is no denying that the new wagon is a very good car on its own rights.

Again, welcome to the brotherhood (and sisterhood).

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

Everything that you describe is what is the norm for these cars. I just had a rebuilt trannie put in, and well, it does shift tight and hard. However, if I take it easy on the gas, it tends to shift at about 3500-4500 rpms, it is as smooth as butta. Mine runs at about 100* celsius when I am in traffic, but other than that, it is what I would call a perfect daily driver. I am going to replace my oil pressure sending unit, as it reads 3 all of the time.


Also, I also feel that the W124 came a a high point in Mercedes Benz engineering. I feel it is one of the most solid cars ever built, and one of the safest. (Ask me how I know ) She is an awesome daily driver, much more than some Hyundai or similar make can offer. It is just an exeptional piece of machinery that goes above and beyond its call.

If you go back through my posts, you will find the one where I hail the W124 platform. You will also find why I know the reason why they are safe cars.


Also, welcome to the brotherhood.... Congrats on the Purchase.

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-Justin

91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd
01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd
07 MB ML320 CDI - dd
16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd

it's automatic.

The fan closest to the engine - running off the belt instead of electric - has a visco clutch which only kicks in to high gear at 2000 rpm.

If you want to check it's working, edge a rolled towel or cloth into the blades while its running and see if it stops. if it stops, the fan clutch is shot.

The important points to note here are 'edge' and 'rolled towel'

Other than that, you might want to check that the cooling system does not have an air pocket in the cylinder head. this will cause the symptoms you describe. the bleed hole is a fiddly bolt in the cylinder head, between the sensors towards the front of the engine.

Re your oil pressure, that's not right. should peg at 3 when the engine is running above idle, 1.5 to 2 at idle. I've read that using the wrong (read cheap) oil filter can cause this behaviour.

__________________
1987 300e manual 250,000 km (sold)

I just have this fear of introducing anything in the pathway of spinning fan blades....

There must be an easier way to test the fan clutch.

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

Oh yeah, and the curb weight of this vehicle is 3475 on the nose.

__________________
-Justin

91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd
01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd
07 MB ML320 CDI - dd
16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd

it's automatic.

Oil pressure is wrong. I would swap out the sensor first from one of your other W124's if you still have them.

Temp guage is within specs. I believe if you turn off the car the main fan should be pretty hard to turn.

So close to the 2-ton mark. These are not lightweights.

Maybe we should start a separate W124/300TE thread.

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

Thanks for the tremendous show of support. I just about had a coniption earlier this afternoon which has effectively put me square towards the DIY mode from hereonin...

I had the driver's seat control brain replaced on the 300 TE by a fellow who originally told me $160... and now has asked for an extra $100 for the repair on the guise that it took him over three hours to remove the driver's seat and replace the seat control brain. After dealing with two shops that couldn't solve a simple problem in over two weeks to save themselves from first base (a 96' diesel I had needed a fuel filter to improve start up), I'm ready to do what I can to avoid further extortions.

"The fans you see turning are running in tandem at slow speed. They don't go on high speed until about 110 degrees. However, both should be turning at the same speed, either on high speed or low speed."

They aren't going in tandem. The one on the front of the radiator is spinning fast while the one in the rear is spinning about a third as fast. I'm going to use the towel test when I get back home to see if I need to replace the fan clutch.

"I think that the oil pressure gauge may be off. My 300TE runs at full oil pressure when the engine is under load (accelarating or going up a hill). I think that yours is running too low. This is especially so in light of the fact that it seems to run normally at first, but then drops."

I wouldn't be surprised. I have a friend of mine who would be willing to test it for free. I've done a lot of good favors for him over the years and wouldn't mind getting the needed expertise for this problem.

Related to this... I'm almost positive they used 10W30 and a cheap Wix filter. I'm going to replace the oil with 20W40 and a Mobil1.

"Other than that, you might want to check that the cooling system does not have an air pocket in the cylinder head. this will cause the symptoms you describe. the bleed hole is a fiddly bolt in the cylinder head, between the sensors towards the front of the engine."

I need to figure out how to diagnose this.

"Oil pressure is wrong. I would swap out the sensor first from one of your other W124's if you still have them."

Ditto on this. I've worked on everything from Vespas to Peugeots in the past. Time hasn't been on my side as of late but that should change this weekend.

Wix filter isn't cheap. I wouldn't use one on the Benz though because a Mann filter costs less. Mobil 1, who knows? Wix tested really well but Mann is a known quantity on a Benz. I was going to suggest 5w40 but then saw where you live.

Jorg

when the engine is cold, locate and remove the bleed screw. top up the coolant mixture with water from the overflow tank until it comes out the bleed hole. replace bleed screw. easy as that. if you're planning to change the coolant, that's the correct way to do it.

don't try it when the engine is warm, that's when you'll drop or cross thread the bleed screw.

i've found it's slightly easier to remove one of the temp sensors instead of the bleed screw. acheives the same thing.

good luck

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1987 300e manual 250,000 km (sold)

Macarose,

Congrats on your new acquisition.

Re some of your questions, hard shifting 'box can be down to 'gearbox pressure'. I don't know the full details of this aspect, though all I know is that it should be around 26-28 (what unit I don't know). I do know it is something to do with the pressure of the fluid (the guage I saw them use was flooded with ATF) tends to go up over time, and if somehow adjusted, smooth shifts return. I'm sure a search / more knowledgable forumers can assist you.

Secondly, re fans, there are 2 sets on the 124s: a single large viscous or clutch fan behind the radiator physically connected to the engine run by the serpentine belt. The clutch will engage / disengage based on engine temp, and can be diagnosed for correct operation using the infamous Carrot Test below, from a UK forum. Please use extreme caution, and if not comfortable, seek professional assistance .

The second set of fan(s) resides infront of the radiator, directly visible when you pop the hood and are of the electricly driven variety. (What may be the source of your confusion is that) some cars have one largish fan, but most seem to two smaller ones, sat side by side like a pair of.... 0-0

The second set of electric fans are typically referred to as the Auxiliary (Aux) fans. The operation of the Aux fans (Simmo will know this is a pet peev of mine. And his ) is governed by slighly different factors from the viscous engine-driven fan, hence not in sync. The Aux fans are usually of the 2 speed variety, with the first or low speed activated by A/C system pressure, and will operate in this mode most of the time.

The second or high speed mode is triggered by engine temps reaching 105/107/110/115C depending on individual engine specs to 'assist' the viscous fan and bring the engine back to 'safe' operating temps. FWIW, your engine temps are fine, though some of us disagree with MB. But thats a story for another day.

Without further ado, the carrot test:

----------------------------------

Here's a good viscous coupling test known by some as "the carrot test".

Step 1. Start your car with the engine cold.

Step 2. Take 1 standard Euro carrot and insert the top into the fan blades. The fan should stop rotating. If the top of the carrot is sliced off, then the viscous coupling has failed in a seized state and should be replaced.

Step 3. Remove the carrot from the engine bay and get engine nice and hot.

Step 4. Re-insert the top of the carrot into the fan blades. This time, the top of the carrot should be sliced off. If it isn't, the viscous coupling has failed in a free-wheeling state and should be replaced.

Other vegatables of a similiar shape and consistency to a carrot can also be used. Don't try it with any body parts though

__________________
Osteopornosis - A Degenerate Disease

3400 pounds is a very reasonable weight considering how solid and structurally sound the car is. Very very lightweight, 300 lbs lighter when compared to a W123, especially the 300D Turbos! Nowadays the next generation cars gain hundreds of pounds, not the other way around. 3400 lbs is about what a new Accord weighs just as a comparison.

Good luck with your car sir.

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

Wow, this is some amazing feedback in a very short period of time. I'll be looking forward to a long weekend on all of this. Oh, and not that a picture of a stationwagon can make the heart aglow but I will definitely be sending some pics out in the day's to come.

This vehicle has all the right qualities going for it. A very usable interior space, lightweight, sporty and safe vis-a-vis most other seven passenger movers, inexpensive parts (the Verastar yards in metro-Atlanta end up liquidating about 10 to 15 W124's a week), very durable components, and enough of a look about to render admiration without it being ostentatious.

My wife like's minivan's... but I'm hoping to convert her for the long-term.