Are the shocks not replaced in pairs? For such a nice car to lean on one corner would be quite embarrasing. The Part alone is $1000 not to mention what it would cost to have someone replace it. Not to mention the computer module which is not very compatible with many of the code reading systems on the market. Realisticly I bet your at least $3000+ for just two of them from a reasonable independant. How many people have replaced these themselves? Anyone?

Just some facts here from the EPA website

MPG's
S500 15/21
S320 17/24

Annual Fuel Cost
$2814 S500
$2393 S320

Not sure how the V8 would get better fuel economy with 3 less MPG fuel efficency. My S320 gets a rock solid 23.9mpg in my mixed highway/city driving route to work.

Very interesting about the Center speaker. I assumed it was two because it would be odd to have a 13 speaker system. But then again it sounds odd to have a 5cyl turbodiesel.

Thats also very interesting about the 1999 model year. My 1982 300SD is an American only model and so is my S320.

I have a few major objections to the S500
-less fuel efficient (not much but it is less efficient)
-high cost hydropnumatic suspension
-higher cost to buy (most people don't know about other S class models other than the S500)
-double the bill on engine work with two heads (I plan on owning my car well beyond engine overhaul time)
-rear A/C (corroded lines taking down the whole system for a useless "gee whiz" feature)

Since I outgrew stop light racing in my early 20's the extra power is not something I would really utilize. While it might be "nice" to have the extra power paying $421 a year in additional fuel costs for engine power I cant use is not worth it to me. I would not throw $400 out the window nor would I give it to a stranger nor would I waste it if I could avoid it. I Also don't like green eggs and ham. Sam I am

Headgaskets are one thing but heres another consideration many people are not thinking of. When your car is 20+ years old and its value has bottomed out and its time for an engine overhaul are you going to spend the money? With the 6cyl you do have the option of going with a used engine. The 6cyl in the 140 is a very popular engine across many different cars and its likely they would be quite easy to come across in the used marketplace. The V8's are rather limited to S Class cars and SL's and with many other owners needing engines at the 20 year mark the pickings might be a little slim for you. I like my car a lot and don't like the idea of it being parted out in 20 years because of the inability to find a reasonably priced engine when my value has hit rock bottom. When I go to visit my parts guy who sells used parts he usually always has a V8 126 chassis car being stripped for parts (not just 380's either) because of the value vs repair equation. Many of the parts from those cars are still rolling around on my 126 diesel. Its really a shame that the original cars could not have survived the test of time and money.

A friend of mine with a 300SL had a friend hit a curb with his car. The quote for another engine was $10K as the oil pan was damaged which in turn shredded the engine. He was able to find a used engine with low mileage out of a wreck for much less. Considering he has an early year 129 the new engine easily rivals the value of his whole car.

To me that's not even close. OBDI works quite well and the code reader is under $10. 119 wiring harnesses aren't that bad, they have probably twice the life of a 104 motor and cost less as well. The 722.6 problem is not just the costly overhaul but the frequency of failure. It seems to be about half the life on average and twice the rebuild cost. I'm not sure what production quality improvements you're talking about but there was a lot of cheapening of the cars as well. Plus you have things like costly keys and ignitions and more cars with ASR. I subscribe to the "nothing after 1995" theory. The 722.6 is a big part of that but certainly not all of it. 1996 was a watershed year in the decline of this company.

I used to agree with your nothing after 1995 statement until I did some research on my current 1999 S320. Its not just the engine wiring harness you have to worry about. The entire car has the same enviromentally friendly insulation. The engine is just the tip of the iceberg for these cars. Eventually as they age the wiring inside the car will begin to break down as well.

The 140's design was done in 1992 and perfected in 1996. Some of the "cheapening" of the cars you speak of was the elimination of not very useful and expensive to repair accessories such as the chrome parking assist shafts on the trunk deck lid.

Honestly I think some of the earlier 140's are just plain ugly. Two tone paint schemes and zebrano wood interiors were showing their age on the 126 but are totally out of place in a 140. My 1999 has a nice Parchment colored interior and a light root wood on the dash that looks MUCH more up to date than the 1970's zebrano and Palomino interiors. And of course lets not talk about the Becker radio. Do the older 140's have the Bose system as well? Does it sound good with the crummy Becker in the dash?

I think the 140 is just starting to be less scary to owners now there is more information about the cars. Additionally as computers become more common place the understanding level is there. In 1992 these cars were cutting edge and personal computers were not very common. Without an understanding of the systems involved and how they communicate the car was a bit of a "black box" then.

Build quality wise and attention to detail the 140 is much better than the 126. One just has to open the drivers door to see the difference in build quality and attention to detail between them. The 126 has a thin door with a standard latch single paned glass and is double sealed. The 140 door has countless seals double paned glass is quite thick and has a pneumatic closure assist.

With the 220 I honestly think Mercedes is going backwards rather than forwards. The doors are thinner and cheap feeling (as with most of the interior on the 220) and you have lost a number of features from the 140. While the 220 is an upgrade if your looking for sat nav or any of the other features that it offers fit and finish are not on the same level as the 140 was. I saw the 220 for the first time at an auto show. When I sat in it I thought it was an E class because of the cheap rounded plastic buttons inside and the cheapened interior.

The 221 is a ray of hope though. It has a lot of cutting edge features on it and appears to have a higher quality fit and finish than the 220. Its also quite an attractive car and looks more like an S class should.

Here is a question.

In what year did MB switch back to normal wiring versus bio wiring?

Robert talked about buying used M104 engines. My Indy , granted a small dataset, commented that he has never seen a M104 head that needed a valve job. Headgasket yes, valve job no. Said it has to do with the design of the head.

My M103 is at 245K no valve job yet. The M104 in my '93 is at 252K. It had a headgasket at around 150K, but no valve job according to the paperwork.

So seems to me that about the only thing likely to fail is the headgasket which is about $800 to $1,000 at my local indy. He'll do a valve job on the M103 for $1,200.

Steve

Question for Robert.

Robert , you have mentioned rear air conditioning twice.

What exactly do you mean by rear air conditioning?
My car has A/C vents and controls for the rear passengers.
I was thinking this is just cool air coming through ducting to the rear from the front compartment.

Sounds like you are referring to something more complex.
Was this an option on S320's?

Steve

Just a quick hit and run here, yes there was an option for rear AC. You always had the vents in back of the console which piggyback off the front AC, but there was an option which included a rear evaporator, you would then have a temp (red/blue) dial in back as well as the vents. Glitzy yes, but if you're trying to impress clients............

Gilly

__________________
Click here to see the items I have up for auction at EBay

Click here to see a photo album of my '62 Sprite Project Moneypit (Now Sold)

Why are we getting links to Kohler toilet seats in the Google search thing at the bottom of this thread???

__________________
Click here to see the items I have up for auction at EBay

Click here to see a photo album of my '62 Sprite Project Moneypit (Now Sold)

Went out an looked. I just have the normal vents for the back.

One less problem to worry about.

Steve

Right, you have the 2 vents you can adjust, and between the vents, the "on" position looks like 2 small rectangles next to each other, and "off" is a zero. The AC controls are quite elaborate by comparison. In the later years i think they were actually orange backlit LCD. I may be thinking of 220 though. But much fancier than stock at any rate. On the rear AC it has it's own evaporator, but the freon cam from the same system as up front, only 1 compressor. The heat that might be needed in back I also think came from up front, which makes me think that if the front passengers and rear passengers had a real conflict in what "comfortable" means, the rear passengers might lose out, especially if the rear passengers want it ALOT warmer than the front ones.
With the stock rear vents, the air temp is dependent on the front setting only, but you can shut the vents off if you don't like it. If the climate control is "off" you get nuttin'.
On the rear AC I believe you will actually activate the system if you call for it (has it's own fan, etc).
Gilly

__________________
Click here to see the items I have up for auction at EBay

Click here to see a photo album of my '62 Sprite Project Moneypit (Now Sold)

I'd figure out how to do it myself. I figure I'm probably about as smart as the German who built the thing.

My grandparents XJ8 has a 300hp V8 and returns an honest 23-24 on the highway. Now granted this is going down to FL and the roads are pretty flat.

Still most of this argument is acidemic, buy what you like is what it comes down to.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

What will you do?
Should I buy the 99 S500 I found and sell the 90 560sec? Or just give up the idea of buying S500 and keep the 560sec. This is my second (weekend) car. I only drive it once a week.
99 S500, 73000 miles, blk/blk, 8.5-9-9 (Exterior-Interior-Mechanical) on a 10 scale, will be 3rd owner.
90 560sec, 55000 miles, smoke silver/beige, 8.5-9-9, 2nd owner.
Like both cars but can’t keep both. Got another 94 E420 as daily driver. What do you think?

__________________
94 E420 116k
90 560sec 57K
90 560sel 57k
89 300E 138K (sold)
87 Porsche 930S 38K (sold)

For me it wouldn't even be close.

Buy the 560 SEC. It is a timeless classic, and will probably never lose value should you keep it up. Probably the best car Mercedes ever built.

The S500, while a nice car, is just a big 4 door sedan. No collectable value at all.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Let me clarify this
I do own this 560sec for almost 4 years already.

__________________
94 E420 116k
90 560sec 57K
90 560sel 57k
89 300E 138K (sold)
87 Porsche 930S 38K (sold)