My brother had a 1996 Nissan Maxima SE that we never could get the A/C working right on. Several trips to the dealership later and the service advisor pretty much admitted that since he had a charcoal gray car with a black leather interior that the A/C was never going to really cool well. He finally traded the car on his 1983 300D because after several trips to dealerships and independant mechanics and every part being replaced in the emssions system the check engine light would not turn off.

If you can't afford the repair bills on a Mercedes then the only logical choice is to buy something cheaper. I drive Mercedes cars because they are extremly comfortable and well made and last a long time. Your also basing your opinion on an 18 year old car. How many 18 year old Japanese cars are on the road anymore? Once they hit 200K they are scrap metal.

I have owned several Japanese comodity cars in the past and have not been pleased with them. Recently I sold a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe that I bought new with only 17K miles on it when I finally ditched it. This "icon of reliability" car was in the shop several times for issues with its brakes. Various squeeks and rattles and problems with its power sterring system. Honda has several open issues on this car with the NHTSA. One of them I found paticularly amusing was a problem with the sunroof which caused it to squeek. They discovered this in 1998 and did not do anything about it even in my end of production 2002 car. If I had not lost my patience the brakes alone could have qualified this car for a lemon law buyback.

Japanese cars are cheap to maintain but they are not comfortable and not well made. They are cheap commodity cars built for consumers who are don't know any better who want affordable transportation. They are by no way on the same level of engineering or quality as a Mercedes Benz. From my experience with my Accord I would say that ALL car makers are basing their reputations on the past and that ALL cars are being made cheaper to increase profits at the ultimate expense of the consumer.

Its one of the reasons I refuse to buy new anymore.

The Honda had a few squeaks that needed some 1040 oil sprayed on it, that was it? C'mon man!! I've heard of brand new MB's needing entire a/c systems at just 10,000 miles. You really think the few squeaks the Honda had, is WORSE than expensive gasket replacements, chronic a/c problems, etc. How can you argue with that? Best read my original post again, mate. But, based on what you are saying, I will however, make a mental note, that cars with more problems are actually better. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Dude, wake up and smell the roses. It's a FACT. MB's have MORE problems, many more, and much more expensive, than Honda's, Camry's, Acura's, etc.
You simply cannot argue that. Here's an example for you...... "10 is more than 2". That's a fact. It cannot be argued with. You're simply living in
la-la land, trying to defend your purchase and your car, because you get an ego boost out of it, and have to justify it. Best for you to re-read my original post and say, "You know what, the guy has a point", than to be so stubborn and fight against facts.

My whole point, which you missed several times over, is that for a "top quality car", they shouldn't HAVE such problems. Sure, they will have problems, but there's no EXCUSE for having so many. 15 year old car or not, the Jap cars would have a/c that still works (maybe you're in a cooler climate, but here in Georgia, it gets damn hot), or need maybe a $100 recharge at most. The MB's are WELL known for CHRONIC a/c problems. Bad fans, bad switches, bad compressors, bad systems. Comfortable in Germany or not, they SOLD them to us here in the U.S., and KNEW ahead of time that it gets hot down south. Yet they let people sweat it out because they were too stupid or too lazy to make them better. We're not talking some silly little inconvenient sunroof squeak here, pal. We're talking about driving in 100 degree and high humity heat and a $1200 - $2,000 repair. But by your standards, that means it's a better quality car, is that right? The Honda's and Toyota's (you paid what, $20,000 for an Accord and you're comparing it to a $50,000 MB) , Lexus, and Acura's (the latter two which more directly compete with MB), have transmissions that are flawless up to about 200,000 miles, just like MB. And when the car is taken care of, the overall car lasts as long as a MB.

Maybe you prefer the ride of one over the other, that's a personal preference. The Jap cars I mentioned are extremely well built. For you to say otherwise is just ridiculous. They compare quite favorably with MB, and for many rich people, they prefer those cars, one big reason is, they don't need repairs. Affordability of repairs or not, rich people (who I do a lot of work for) don't want the hassles of taking a car into a repair shop, and many drive Jap cars FOR that reason.

Am I totally dissatisfied with my 300d? No. I just bought it in June and fixed some problems that I knew it had before buying (a/c chief among them). I'll keep it for now, but I've had to repair other things that I have NEVER had to do with any car, and mind you, I just sold a near flawless 1988 Toyota Camry. That's OLDER, if you'll notice, than my 1991 300d. And suddenly, I find myself coming to this site to get repair info on different things. Radio problems, fuse problems, a/c issues, etc. I don't want to spend my time repairing a car. I also admit that when there are no problems, I "feel" like my car is a nice running car. When there's a pending repair, like most people, my opinion of the car changes.

I'm assuming you come to this forum not for repair advice on your car, but to spread good cheer to others about Mercedes, is that right?

Jeff 1991 300d

Yes, I agree with you about the part - if you cannot afford to maintain a high-end luxury car, then perhaps its best to steer clear, or the car will be worth nothing in no time.

I must say I have to disagree thought about the part about 200K mile Japanese cars being scrap metal. Its no secret that the newer Japanese cars have declined in quality, but many (or most) of the ones of the 1980s up until about the mid 1990s were high quality cars. My father has a 1988 Nissan truck, with 260K miles and other than tires and brakes, has needed nothing but a starter a couple of years ago @ 245K. My uncle bought it new, so I knew the complete history and he never pampered the truck. In fact, it had the original timing belt until 209K when my dad bought it from him. I have had Accords and Camrys, all with 220K miles. One Camry had 230K and was still like new. One of my aunts has a 93' Camry she bought new, now with 246K. My 90' Lexus LS400 had 254K when I sold it and the girl I sold it to still has it and it has 272K on it now (last time I spoke to her)- all original parts, except timing belt, brakes, etc. I was amazed.

Now there are some 80s Japanese cars that were crap. Some never even made it to 150K without woes, but for the most part- most 80s Toyotas and Hondas would go 250K easily if properly cared for. 80s American cars could not touch them. Still, the 80s Mercedes- especially the S-Class were one of the best built cars out there. Mine has 267K miles, 21 years old and still rattle/squeak free.

Rchase,

Regarding your twinkies analogy, I don't really want to debate which manufacturer is better, a Mercedes or Honda. The Japs didn't start making cars to compete with MB until 1988 with the Acura's. The Jap luxury cars, though good from the start, probably didn't BEGIN to hit their stride until 1992or so, and I think around 1997 they got even better.

I would think today (I can't afford a new car, so I won't know for sure) that Lexus provides a much better vehicle than MB. I can't think of anything MB could really offer to outdo the Jap luxury cars (Lexus, Infinity, Acura), but again, I really don't know, I've never driven them nor do I intend to.

That all said, twinkie or high quality pastry chef, take a look at some repairs that I've never had to do with ANY car, except a MB. We'll have to agree to disagree then, that I think these things shouldn't have happened in the first place by a manufacturer that puts themselves out there as being a #1 car.

1988 300 CE, when it was 10 years old and just 90k on it. (I sold it in 1998).

Oil gaskets, upper and lower $600
Transmission gasket leak $500
A/c problem $500
Broken seatbelt part $30
Inner and Outer CV joints $200
Crummy radio and speakers, came standard on this high quality car

Now for my 1991 300 d, my current car with just 95k on it.

a/c problem $1200
seatbelt retraction problem $50
power steering leak $300
Center link on steering rods $280
The car is on its 3rd dampner (holds the serpentine belt with correct tension)
Dashboard light out (small, but I've never had to replace one on any other car)
Seat spring problem, hurts my rear end after just 15 minutes. Will have to be looked at.
Crummy radio and speakers, came standard. Painful, will have to replace.
Fuses got old, caused problems, had to replace. Not expensive, but I've
never had to do that with any other car in my whole entire life.


Work done on my 1988 Toyota Camry with 166,000 miles on it (recently sold it): Oil gasket leak, easy fix, $20, New CV joints needed at 155k $300,
a/c worked great, needed nothing. Car purred like a kitten.

Work on my 1990 Acura Legend. Had it up to 100k miles. Needed nothing.

I've owned several other Camry's, with 80k on them, needed nothing.

Several Honda Accords, up to 90k. Needed nothing.

1999 Toyota Avalon sold at 40k, needed nothing.

All of those Jap cars are easy candidates to get what the MB is capable of, 300k miles (the diesels can go more, but I understand they need rebuilt around 300k).

I admit the Mercedes has a nicer feel than a Camry or Accord, but they're not in the same class, either. If you compare a 1991 MB to a 1991 Jap car, the MB would probably win, by a bit, as far as how it handles, quiet, etc. But I'll bet by 1997 or so, the gap narrowed. MB still made cars with bad a/c's, and they made the entire cars WORSE from what I've heard. They went DOWN in quality while the Japs went up. I'm figuring at this point, the luxury Jap cars are far better. I even heard MB changed their steering box to a power steering unit similar to Jap cars.

MB's of today (current models like from 1997 and forward) are nothing but a nameplate at this point from what I've heard. You're paying at least 15,000 for a 3 star circle. As to the older cars, in my view, which is different from yours and that's okay, they require more repairs than they should. Problems such as a/c should have been addressed when problems were found. But they weren't. Seat springs, ditto. Oil gaskets, ditto. But it's just my opinion, and that's all I have to say about it. Goodbye.

jeff

To suggest that MBs are nothing but a nameplate from 1997 is just pure poppycock. It was 1996.

The gap between a 2006 Acura MDX and BMW X5 is pretty wide, the Acura is a step down. The Germans still have it, the old ML was a pos, the new one is rather nice. Still not an ML fan.

I sudjest one actualy drive and live with a late model MB for a while before passing judgment. The W140 is a BETTER car than my W126 in so many ways. Buy both and you will understand. The new W221 makes my old W126 look and feel cheap. The interior is in on a whole other level.

My dads friends son just turned 16 and got a 1989 Camry. Yeah it does get you there I gues, makes a bike look tempting though.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

No, I never did buy it. After hearing that $12K was way too steep, I totally marked it off of my lists. THEN, the same MERCEDES dealership had/has a 1994 S420, with 149K for $4995. Stated to be original owner, excellent condition, well maintained, ALL RECORDS, like new, black on black. I have saw photos and it is a beautiful car.

Then everyone started telling me about the A/C horror stories and the interior and underhood wiring woes and I thought that this car may end up putting me in bankruptcy with repair costs. What I do not understand- why if the A/C (removal of the entire dash) and the wiring woes are so common on these cars- why has NHTSA not demanded a recall? Especially on the wiring, which could be a safety hazard.

Who knows, since this was a 1-owner, well maintained car, I suppose its possible that all of these things have already been addressed, OR it may be why the owner is selling it.

UPDATE- I just went to their website and the mentioned black Mercedes above has been SOLD. I made a mistake on the miles though. It had 164K. Hopefully whoever bought it will not have to deal with these woes.

I guess it all depends on what is a priority to you
Do you want to drive something 200K( or more) and not have to spend any money on it for the most part?
or does a few( maybe several) thousand dollars in repairs bother you at all?

As for the comment about someone listing 15 years of repairs on their car...trust me if you had owned a 140 for 5-6 years you would know that you would pray for a repair list like that in 15 years.

And by the way the comment about the good stereo....always been an issue with me on why the older cars had such crappy stereos....they FINALLY got a clue in 1992 with the 140 and in 1996 with the 210

But I have to say that for the used car selling prices right now on the 140( and even the newer 220) its one heck of a buy even if you have to do an ac evap core....but ones older that 1997 have probably already had that done at least once anyway.
I have never known anyone who had a 140 older than 6 years old that has had not had to have the AC evap done...my personal car had it done twice....once under the orginal owner when the car was 3 years old and once when I owned it whan the car was 7 years old.

But getting back to the used cars values...still a heck of a car and I think the prevailing prices are becuse people know that you need a reserve for repairs when you buy one. Based on early 220 prices currently...(20-25K) with 70-80K miles it seems that the same applies.
I was looking at a 2001 S500 this morning with 85K miles for $22,500..original sticker was $92,000...one owner ..great condition..thats 75% off


Warren
2000 BMW 740I
1992 300SD( sold)
1992 300D( sold)
1985 300SD( sold)
Columbus Ohio