S500 Home at last!! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cdplayer · #31 12-23-2006, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR.DIESEL

I can't help but recommend a buyers inspection at a MB dealership.
It may cost more than at your corner gas station, however we know
what to look for with each model and year.

On 2000-2002 W220 S classes, all those issues are very common.
There are factory DTB's for almost all of them.
A burned out air pump or suspension pump will set all kinds of dtc
faults. Those would have been caught on a Buyers inspection.

That car most likely got wholesaled to a cheezey dealer because it
had an owner that never had it serviced at the dealer.
We look for those issues and will fix them under warranty when
we look the cars over during a service.

That car probably blew through it's warranty before addressing anything.
After being traded in or off lease the dealership gave it a once over and saw all the needed repairs.
Off to the auction or wholesaler she went.

Buyer beware with late model MB's from non-MB dealers.

There are lot's of badly rebuilt Katrina cars hitting the market now.
Watch out.

DR.D

Actually the VMI report shows between 9/2000 and 1/2006 the first owner did have the car in to a dealer for service a total of 32 times.
The same dealer in San Mateo.

cdplayer · #32 12-23-2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will70724

Pretty much the same thing, those cars interchange all the time. That sucks. But as a person that grew up in vallejo my whole life, people go out of town to buy cars everyone hates to buy stuff in vallejo.

I have nothing against Vallejo. I found the W220 on AutoTrader online.

will70724 · #33 12-23-2006, 12:31 AM

Oh Im not saying you have anything against vallejo, but like the common thing here is that we dont buy stuff here because of 2 reasons.

1) people in vallejo dont have much money ( a lot of them dont) and therefore dont have the money to spend at dealerships.

2) People just have negative thoughts about buying in vallejo we dont feel that dealerships and other places in vallejo are on the up and up.

Vallejo has gotten pretty bad with poverty and violence which I think ties into people wanting to spend money here. Just my oppinion.

rchase · #34 12-27-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProV1

haha, i LOLed at your post. i hope the W220s become the alltime fastest depreciating MB ever so i can pick up a low mileage 2004 S500 sport in 5 yrs for dirt cheap!

Im not sure if I would even want a 220 at all to be honest. Its not even really as nice as the 140. At least the 140 has its construction quality to make up for its expensive service visits.

rchase · #35 12-27-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will70724

Oh Im not saying you have anything against vallejo, but like the common thing here is that we dont buy stuff here because of 2 reasons.

1) people in vallejo dont have much money ( a lot of them dont) and therefore dont have the money to spend at dealerships.

2) People just have negative thoughts about buying in vallejo we dont feel that dealerships and other places in vallejo are on the up and up.

Vallejo has gotten pretty bad with poverty and violence which I think ties into people wanting to spend money here. Just my oppinion.

EXACTLY!!!

Thats why I only buy my used Mercedes from Jewish Accountants who live in upscale neighborhoods.

Seriously though. The amount of money someone has is not an indicator of how well they will maintain a car. Some people are just cheap regardless of how much money they have. Many people who buy and lease new MB's don't really care how they are maintained and do the bare minum to keep them going while they are still under warranty. Once the warranty runs out they quickly dump the car for the new model and the new warranty coverage. Its unfortunate that many buyers like ourselves who are enthusiasts are left "holding the bag" on these cars.

To the original poster with his 220. While you spent a bundle you do have the peace of mind that you probably won't have issues with the Airmatic system for a while. There are no guarantees on anything in life and that 40K CPO car could have done exactly the same thing the second the warranty ran out. For that dollar amount I would call around to some local Attorneys. Most car dealers don't like to spend money on legal defense. When the sherriffs departent comes by to serve them with papers they will probably take the cheap route and just settle with you out of court. Additionally with the discovery process you may find documentation indicating they were aware of the issues for a slam dunk case.

Jim B. · #36 12-27-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdplayer

Actually the VMI report shows between 9/2000 and 1/2006 the first owner did have the car in to a dealer for service a total of 32 times.
The same dealer in San Mateo.

Probably Autobahn Motors.

32 tmes!!! WOW!!!!

Were the damage codes all different? Identical damage codes over 5 times mean L E M O N. Maybe a prima facie lemon law case in California, if the dealer can't fix the problem after that many tries.

(I had a successful Lemon Law buyback on a new 2001 Volvo C70 HPT turbo coupe in 2002 but an attorney got involved, however he was good, and got a full refund, not another junker or that car fixed, just wanted it gone)

This is a great argument for getting the VMI before you buy.

I got one all the way back in 1996 (just AFTER I got the 1991 560SEC and there was nothing serious, just a few warranty claims, door check strap, dead battery, p/s pump, stuff like that)

They could avoid a problem like this

Sometimes lessees take less care of the car, they have no proprietary interest or reason to care, just minimal, if that, then dump the car at lease's end. All things being equal, I would avoid them in favor of one that had one fussy owner instead

rchase · #37 12-27-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

(I had a successful Lemon Law buyback on a new 2001 Volvo C70 HPT turbo coupe in 2002 but an attorney got involved, however he was good, and got a full refund, not another junker or that car fixed, just wanted it gone)

Sometimes lessees take less care of the car, they have no proprietary interest or reason to care, just minimal, if that, then dump the car at lease's end. All things being equal, I would avoid them in favor of one that had one fussy owner instead

Thats Ironic. A friend of mine went through 2 C70HPT convertibles. Those cars while really nice were total crap.

When shopping for a car you only have the car to go on. The old owner is long gone in most cases and would be utterly useless because most people think that they are taking care of their cars even when they are severely abused.

Rather than wasting your time tire kicking and trying to connect some kind of half a**ed logic to the best kind of car to buy why not take that time and learn about the engineering of the car instead? There are more concrete things you can look at such as design changes and improvements made to cars during their production run that are even stronger predictors as to the future reliablity of the car rather than trying to "guess" about old service records and who might have owned it.

ProV1 · #38 12-28-2006, 01:04 AM

i've been seriously considering the W220 as my next car, most likely a 2004 S500 sport, but i have some doubts now. I might have to get a 2004 BMW 745Li even though i'm not a fan of the iDrive & the front fascia. Or a 2004 Audi A8L (which looks gorgeous but has it's share of reliability problems)... argh. maybe i'll just buy a Lexus LS430 and call it a day!!

:fork_off:

rchase · #39 12-28-2006, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProV1

i've been seriously considering the W220 as my next car, most likely a 2004 S500 sport, but i have some doubts now. I might have to get a 2004 BMW 745Li even though i'm not a fan of the iDrive & the front fascia. Or a 2004 Audi A8L (which looks gorgeous but has it's share of reliability problems)... argh. maybe i'll just buy a Lexus LS430 and call it a day!!

:fork_off:

A friend of mine bought an LS430. Like most Japanese cars it test drives well but lacks the spirit and soul of the European cars. On top of that my S320 rides better and is quieter inside and does not have the mismatched multicolor instrumentation.

Jim B. · #40 12-28-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

When shopping for a car you only have the car to go on. The old owner is long gone in most cases and would be utterly useless because most people think that they are taking care of their cars even when they are severely abused.

Rather than wasting your time tire kicking and trying to connect some kind of half a**ed logic to the best kind of car to buy why not take that time and learn about the engineering of the car instead? There are more concrete things you can look at such as design changes and improvements made to cars during their production run that are even stronger predictors as to the future reliablity of the car rather than trying to "guess" about old service records and who might have owned it.

Hello. R. Chase in Atlanta, I apologise in advance if I misapprehended your remarks, but I really don't think I did.

I like the people around here, but I am going to go out on a limb here and violently disagree with you here, I feel you called this one totally wrong here, so I am calling you to task on this one.

It is so easy and glib for you to simply say all you can do is to be aware of which cars are good and bad and avoid the bad cars. That's only *half* the story. You can parse out which cars are the good models to buy, and two identical models could look the same, and one is a gem and one might be junk Your job would be to use anything you could, to your advantage, to figure out which one of the two to choose.

So, when buying a car PRIVATELY, an intelligent view of the situation, may give lots of clues to the car's worth. Even looking at the seller's house, his clothes, his other vehicles, can give valuable clues about his car he is selling. Is he sloppy, his grass unmowed, other cars dirty, house untidy and a mess, with newspapers around everywhere, old tools and junk scattered around the garage, burnt out bedsprings on the lawn, then chances are good that he had neglected the car he is trying to sell you, too.

This kind of observation, obviously, is usually impossible when buying from a dealer or auction (NOT always, though), as the prior service records are usually gone or not available and you can't interview the Prior owner at the dealer. Always the dealer tries to protect the privacy (supposedly) of the previous owner of the car by removing any paperwork with their name on it and never letting the customer see the name and address on the title, even afgter the car is sold, that is why the dealer charges you $50 title and transfer fee, they send the paperwork to the DMV.. It can be hard for the determined and buyer determined to be informed about the car. But the best evidence of the car's care can be found by talking to the owner who had it and looking at the documents which proved the necessary service and repairs had been done timely(of course not with DIY owners, a pretty rare breed)

As a used car purchaser, many times I have gone to the extent, in pursuit of this information, to call up or visit the garages who stamped the record maintenance booklets, in the car, and talked to them about the car, I have asked police dept friends to run title/license checks on the car I liked, but saw at the dealer, and then wrote to the old owner of the car with some money inside the letter as incentive, and asked them to phone me to talk about the car they'd sold or traded to the dealer, and EVERY time, they called me and I got valuable information, service records, and once even touch up paint and extra keys from them. Most prior owners aren't really so paranoid about privacy, despite what you or the dealers would have us believe.. This helped me be a calm and satisfied buyer, with service history reconstructed many times on used cars, sometimes all the way back to mile zero and Predelivery inspection, so you need to be resourceful and a bit bold. The rewards could be rich and productive (yet you dismiss them as silly paperwork not worth chasing)

It worked, to reconstruct maintenance history to day one in some cases, and was verfy helpful in predicting future repair expenses and what service needed to be done when.....

Engineering, design changes, and design changes in production run can be predictors of reliability and durability in the future, and are nice to know, but it is only HALF the story.

Your mention of discovery issues and lawsuits suggest some familiarity with legal conflicts, and if that be so, I respectfully suggest you may want to realign your thinking about what really constitutes an invasion of privacy in this kind of situation, buyinjg a used car and merely seeking out the history of the vehicle. Carfax can only do a certain limited job....

You are giving MANIFESTLY BAD ADVICE HERE if you are saying that "tire kicking and half'a$$ed logic" is applied to car purchases by clueless buyers who are trying to figure out the prior history and maintenance paper trail of the car.

Physical condition of the car counts a lot, and the car should be inspected to be sure it is in good physical condition, not a rust bucket, refugee from a freeway pile up, and that all systems and mechanical parts work as they should, that's the purpose of a prepurchase inspection.

However, for you to so cavalierly dismiss a buyer's efforts to find out the prior owners of the car, and service history documentation, flies in the face of widely accepted and logically sound advice to car purchasers. Knowing this information can provide a gold mine of sound and excellent information to prospective buyers, and getting it could actually increase the value of the car onm subsequent resale. Getting all the information you can is not a waste of time, it's vital, even critically so with the high line luxury cars, all the experts always say "service history is critical, get all you can, never buy without"

For you to suggest anything otherwise, is doing buyers a grave disservice.

You are UTTERLY, AND FLAT OUT W R O N G !!!

You want to buy a car your way, fine, and the best of LUCK to you - because you will really need it.

But don't try and peddle it here, it's *really* bad advice!

Hatterasguy · #41 12-28-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProV1

i've been seriously considering the W220 as my next car, most likely a 2004 S500 sport, but i have some doubts now. I might have to get a 2004 BMW 745Li even though i'm not a fan of the iDrive & the front fascia. Or a 2004 Audi A8L (which looks gorgeous but has it's share of reliability problems)... argh. maybe i'll just buy a Lexus LS430 and call it a day!!

:fork_off:

They are all money pits! If you don't want problems buy a new Camry!

rchase · #42 12-28-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Hello. R. Chase in Atlanta, I apologise in advance if I misapprehended your remarks, but I really don't think I did.

I like the people around here, but I am going to go out on a limb here and violently disagree with you here, I feel you called this one totally wrong here, so I am calling you to task on this one.

It is so easy and glib for you to simply say all you can do is to be aware of which cars are good and bad and avoid the bad cars. That's only *half* the story. You can parse out which cars are the good models to buy, and two identical models could look the same, and one is a gem and one might be junk Your job would be to use anything you could, to your advantage, to figure out which one of the two to choose.

So, when buying a car PRIVATELY, an intelligent view of the situation, may give lots of clues to the car's worth. Even looking at the seller's house, his clothes, his other vehicles, can give valuable clues about his car he is selling. Is he sloppy, his grass unmowed, other cars dirty, house untidy and a mess, with newspapers around everywhere, old tools and junk scattered around the garage, burnt out bedsprings on the lawn, then chances are good that he had neglected the car he is trying to sell you, too.

This kind of observation, obviously, is usually impossible when buying from a dealer or auction (NOT always, though), as the prior service records are usually gone or not available and you can't interview the Prior owner at the dealer. Always the dealer tries to protect the privacy (supposedly) of the previous owner of the car by removing any paperwork with their name on it and never letting the customer see the name and address on the title, even afgter the car is sold, that is why the dealer charges you $50 title and transfer fee, they send the paperwork to the DMV.. It can be hard for the determined and buyer determined to be informed about the car. But the best evidence of the car's care can be found by talking to the owner who had it and looking at the documents which proved the necessary service and repairs had been done timely(of course not with DIY owners, a pretty rare breed)

As a used car purchaser, many times I have gone to the extent, in pursuit of this information, to call up or visit the garages who stamped the record maintenance booklets, in the car, and talked to them about the car, I have asked police dept friends to run title/license checks on the car I liked, but saw at the dealer, and then wrote to the old owner of the car with some money inside the letter as incentive, and asked them to phone me to talk about the car they'd sold or traded to the dealer, and EVERY time, they called me and I got valuable information, service records, and once even touch up paint and extra keys from them. Most prior owners aren't really so paranoid about privacy, despite what you or the dealers would have us believe.. This helped me be a calm and satisfied buyer, with service history reconstructed many times on used cars, sometimes all the way back to mile zero and Predelivery inspection, so you need to be resourceful and a bit bold. The rewards could be rich and productive (yet you dismiss them as silly paperwork not worth chasing)

It worked, to reconstruct maintenance history to day one in some cases, and was verfy helpful in predicting future repair expenses and what service needed to be done when.....

Engineering, design changes, and design changes in production run can be predictors of reliability and durability in the future, and are nice to know, but it is only HALF the story.

Your mention of discovery issues and lawsuits suggest some familiarity with legal conflicts, and if that be so, I respectfully suggest you may want to realign your thinking about what really constitutes an invasion of privacy in this kind of situation, buyinjg a used car and merely seeking out the history of the vehicle. Carfax can only do a certain limited job....

You are giving MANIFESTLY BAD ADVICE HERE if you are saying that "tire kicking and half'a$$ed logic" is applied to car purchases by clueless buyers who are trying to figure out the prior history and maintenance paper trail of the car.

Physical condition of the car counts a lot, and the car should be inspected to be sure it is in good physical condition, not a rust bucket, refugee from a freeway pile up, and that all systems and mechanical parts work as they should, that's the purpose of a prepurchase inspection.

However, for you to so cavalierly dismiss a buyer's efforts to find out the prior owners of the car, and service history documentation, flies in the face of widely accepted and logically sound advice to car purchasers. Knowing this information can provide a gold mine of sound and excellent information to prospective buyers, and getting it could actually increase the value of the car onm subsequent resale. Getting all the information you can is not a waste of time, it's vital, even critically so with the high line luxury cars, all the experts always say "service history is critical, get all you can, never buy without"

For you to suggest anything otherwise, is doing buyers a grave disservice.

You are UTTERLY, AND FLAT OUT W R O N G !!!

You want to buy a car your way, fine, and the best of LUCK to you - because you will really need it.

But don't try and peddle it here, it's *really* bad advice!

If your comfortable basing your purchasing decisions on he said she said type of information by all means do so. I prefer to base my decisions on facts. While service records do tell part of a story they don't tell the whole story and filling in what you "think" might be the truth is not really useful. Human behavior is completely unpredictable. That smartly dressed perfect Mercedes owning guy that you want to buy a car from could also be an axe murderer.

As for your claims that I am utterly and flat out wrong I invite you to prove your statement. Then again since your seem to be happy with questionable information Im sure that you will tell me a story about how your cousin bought a car and did not check the service history and spent a ton of money on its repairs. I used to sell cars and quite honestly 99% of the old wives tales that you guys spew on these message boards are based on "stories".

Trying to "guess" about how someone might have treated a car is a waste of time. As for calling someone do you think they would allow their sense of pride about themselves be damaged by telling you how they neglected their car? People often don't tell the truth.

If you get your ego boost by pouring over the service records of a car and making guesses as to factual information and interrogating previous owners by all means keep it up. Perhaps you might do a little more of that rather than going out of your way to be rude to people who share information contrary to your point of view.

cdplayer · #43 12-28-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Probably Autobahn Motors.

32 tmes!!! WOW!!!!

Were the damage codes all different? Identical damage codes over 5 times mean L E M O N. Maybe a prima facie lemon law case in California, if the dealer can't fix the problem after that many tries.

(I had a successful Lemon Law buyback on a new 2001 Volvo C70 HPT turbo coupe in 2002 but an attorney got involved, however he was good, and got a full refund, not another junker or that car fixed, just wanted it gone)

This is a great argument for getting the VMI before you buy.

I got one all the way back in 1996 (just AFTER I got the 1991 560SEC and there was nothing serious, just a few warranty claims, door check strap, dead battery, p/s pump, stuff like that)

They could avoid a problem like this

Sometimes lessees take less care of the car, they have no proprietary interest or reason to care, just minimal, if that, then dump the car at lease's end. All things being equal, I would avoid them in favor of one that had one fussy owner instead

VMI shows a variety of damage codes. Only twice in the first 5 years of ownership did the codes duplicate. Once for a faulty interface regarding the integrated phone and for jump starting. All other damage codes were different.
The first owner (lease) was a couple of hundred miles late with the FSS
requirement on two occassions.

86560SEL · #44 12-28-2006, 11:42 PM

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. You obviously have a thick wallet to be able to pay for a 2001 S-Class, then another $10K in repairs!

Its a pity too.... the 2000-01 S500's are such nice cars too.

cdplayer · #45 12-28-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86560SEL

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. You obviously have a thick wallet to be able to pay for a 2001 S-Class, then another $10K in repairs!

Its a pity too.... the 2000-01 S500's are such nice cars too.

Well, my wallet is not as thick as I would like.
And the car is very easy on the eyes. I am quite content for now that many of the electrical issues this model is known for have been repaired.
I just wanted to share my findings with those on this board that have helped me with their posts.