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  #1  
Old 05-29-2001, 10:42 AM
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I have had my 190E 2.3 for about 4 years and really dig it. The biggest flaw, in my opinion, is its lack of power. I see really good things about the 16 valve.

When was it made?
How many?
How rare is that Cosworth head, should I blow it off the block with a nasty overheat?

Pat Leber
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2001, 12:35 PM
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The 16V was imported into the USA in 1986 and 1987 but there are many 1985 'grey market' cars here also. I don't know the numbers off hand but for the most part, you can consider it a rare car. At this point, there is good support as far as parts and performance enhancements.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2001, 01:09 PM
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Fewer than 2,000 16V's were officially imported into the US.
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2001, 11:09 PM
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The 190 E 2.3-16 was first introduced at the Frankfurt Auto show in September, 1983 and sold until 1988. It set a land speed record in stock form for averaging 247.939 kph (154.06 mph) for a distance of 50,000 km. The only modifications were items to reduce drag such as removing the mirrors, hood star, some work around the headlights, narrower tire size and antenna removal.

I'd be interested in knowing year by year production.

Robby
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2001, 01:39 AM
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According to the February 1998 issue of European car, a total of 1,953 16V's were imported legally between 1986 and 1987. 1,202 in 1986, and 751 the following year.


Enjoy your rides,
-Doc
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2001, 09:24 AM
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Thanks folks

Thanks for the many responses. I do like the look of the 16v and would choose the 16v over an old M3 or M6 for that matter.

I have seen many 16v's around the NYC/tri-state area, which leads me to believe that there are alot of 2.3 imposters running around with the 16v body kits.
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2001, 10:32 PM
Joe-1
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16 valve 190

In my area of NJ, there are 4 16 valves around. There are 3 black and one silver. All are the real mccoy.
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  #8  
Old 05-31-2001, 02:59 PM
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global production numbers for the 2.3-16 years 1984-1988 number around 19,400. between 1988-1993, about 5,700 2.5-16s were built.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2001, 08:10 AM
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Herr / Julio-

Julio, I too believe the import #'s you suggested are accurate, 1202 in '86 and 751 in '87. Many gray market '85's here too.

Herr, interesting you point that out about the propensity of 16v's in your Tri-state area. When looking all over the internet for 6 or so months to research the car / locate / purchase one last year, I found a STRONG, uncanny concentration of them in your area, and another concentration on the west coast. The reason I attribute to it is not unrealistic. Think about this: our cars cost, no joke, beteen $37-$40+ large, in '86/'87 dollars no less! That was a TON of money. There was simply a higher concentration of people with that kind of dough in the Metro NY / Gold Coast / West Coast areas, hence you will find many of these there (not to say people ELSEwhere do not have $$$, but you all know what I'm talking about). So there may be a lot of originals near you. You may have a ton of fakes on top of that, I think people in your area tend to 'hop up' there cars like that (I think I'll stop here, I don't mean to sound opinionated, really!). Fakes are dead ringers and easily spotted with a passing eye.

Not sure if my 2.3-16 is better than an E30 ///M3, especially an Evo II M3 that could be bought here with 230 horse. Maybe if we got the 190E 2.5-16 EvoII... I had an E28 ///M5 previous to this, and, well, dare I admit it in this forum? I love my car now, but there is no comparison. Different leagues all together, the ///M5 would have embarrassed my 16v. The box stock 190 horse ///M3, while more garish and boy-racer looking was also an arguably better performer than my 16v, and catered to a different mission. More performance bits and pieces built in, more purpose built. I like my 16v as it's a bad-arse Benz, a more mature, polished package. I know I'm treading on thin ice here, but I also try to be realistic and not 'married' to one brand just because I happen to own one.

Happy hunting!

Paul
'87 190E 2.3-16
'98 ML320
'58 TR3A
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2001, 08:17 AM
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Herr / Julio-

Julio, I too believe the import #'s you suggested are accurate, 1,202 in '86 and 751 in '87 (that Euro Car article is pretty good). All US imports were either Smoke Silver or Black Pearl, and appx. 85-90% were 5spd's with the dog-legged 1st gear Getrag box, the rest being (GAG!) automatics (the race-patterened 5spd was a tougher sell in RHD models in Europe, try slapping that shifter away from you and down to grab 1st, it's un-natural). Many gray market '85's here too.

Robby, I'm still trying to figure out that top speed issue, my US model with the 3.27 rear end tops out 130 max, very buzzy up there. I've heard the European version was good for roughly 143 with the more hp and different final drive. Interesting...

Herr, interesting you point that out about the propensity of 16v's in your Tri-state area. When looking all over the internet for 6 or so months to research the car / locate / purchase one last year, I found a STRONG, uncanny concentration of them in your area, and another concentration on the west coast. The reason I attribute to it is not unrealistic. Think about this: our cars cost, no joke, beteen $37-$40+ large, in '86/'87 dollars no less! That was a TON of money. There was simply a higher concentration of people with that kind of dough in the Metro NY / Gold Coast / West Coast areas, hence you will find many of these there (not to say people ELSEwhere do not have $$$, but you all know what I'm talking about). So there may be a lot of originals near you. You may have a ton of fakes on top of that, I think people in your area tend to 'hop up' there cars like that (I think I'll stop here, I don't mean to sound opinionated, really!). Fakes are dead ringers and easily spotted with a passing eye.

Not sure if my 2.3-16 is better than an E30 ///M3, especially an Evo II M3 that could be bought here with 230 horse. Maybe if we got the 190E 2.5-16 EvoII... I had an E28 ///M5 previous to this, and, well, dare I admit it in this forum? I love my car now, but there is no comparison. Different leagues all together, the ///M5 would have embarrassed my 16v. The box stock 190 horse ///M3, while more garish and boy-racer looking was also an arguably better performer than my 16v, and catered to a different mission. More performance bits and pieces built in, more purpose built. I like my 16v as it's a bad-arse Benz, a more mature, polished package. I know I'm treading on thin ice here, but I also try to be realistic and not 'married' to one brand just because I happen to own one.

Happy hunting!

Paul
'87 190E 2.3-16
'98 ML320
'58 TR3A
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  #11  
Old 07-16-2001, 10:07 AM
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Paul et al

Robby, I'm still trying to figure out that top speed issue, my US model with the 3.27 rear end tops out 130 max, very buzzy up there. I've heard the European version was good for roughly 143 with the more hp and different final drive. Interesting...

I have an '85 Euro with a 7,200 rev limiter. I haven't had it past 115 but the owner's manual claims 143.5 mph and like I mentioned before the stock euro with reduced drag has frequently been timed at 155+.

I also own 2 BMWs. The engineering company I purchased my 2.3-16 from does aftermarket work to Bimmers and Benzes and the owner said their tricked out 16Vs handled better than their Bimmers. The 16V I purchased from them has all their suspension and brake mods. At Summit Point this year I was on the track with an AMG E500. It smoked me on the straight, but I'd catch him between turns 3 and 4 (10 turns on the 2.0 mile course). Bimmers and Benzes ... they are a blast to drive.

Cheers

Robby
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2001, 10:29 AM
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Total worldwide production of the 2.3-16 was 19,487 per MB.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2001, 01:58 AM
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Robby, etc.-

I agree about lap times vs. a 500E, see the Lime Rock thread under Hot Rods about our weekend there last week, me and 2 500E's from this site. One of the guy has tons of time in the seat on track, he was obviously faster. I was pleasantly surprised my 16v was in the same league as them, as they'd blast 120 down the straight whereas I was only able to squeeze out 105 prior to Big Bend. Guess I made up for it in the twisty bits.

Paul
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2001, 03:22 AM
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190E 2.3-16 vs. W124 V-8

I've enjoyed this thread a lot. The 16V's problem lay with economics and demographics of "typical" MB owners. The 16V new cost the same as a new 300E and had roughly the same performance, on paper. It is cramped in the back compared to the W124. The problem is obvious. Wouldn't happen that way in the BMW world.

I recently took my 194 E420+ with E500 suspension to a BMWCCA driving school. The 420 was incredible in the straights and was very neutral handling but my 16V with its manual would have been better for sure on a road course 1.5 miles long with 10 turns.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2001, 03:29 AM
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"problem"???

ATATEXAN-

Not sure what 'problem' with the 2.3-16 you're referring to that is 'obvious'? And 'what' wouldn't happen in the case of 'the BMW world'? Consider me silly but I'm confused. The perception of the car in the marketplace and consumer misconception?

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