From the interior of the 140, unlock the doors and all you have to do is push in the key button on the trunk and it will open. Why was an interior release even neccesary.

__________________
"If I teach you half of what I forgot, you'll still have enough to compete with most people"

well, what an education the posts to this topic have been.

it was difficult for me to gain enlightenment. there seem to be a lot of "rants" within this thread.

i was about ready to add a very immaculate, extremely low mileage 1997 w140c to my collection. a collection which tries to benchmark the design management of bruno sacco, whom i consider the premier auto design manager of the post ww2 era. but these posts have put me off a bit.

perhaps some of you would be kind enough to help me out. here is my story...

i have owned benzes since 1973. my first one was a 220. what a great car. i drove it to death. from houston to everywhere i could get to. in 1976 it had accumulated 140,000 miles and i replaced it with the first big car that i found to be as much fun to drive as my lotus. it was a 450sel. in 10 years, i put approx. 240,000 miles on it. i hated to retire it, but i supplemented it in 1985 with one of the first 300e's.

a fun car, more tossable than the 116, but it had some weird deficiencies, that benz did not want to recognize. so in 1986, i abandoned it for another sonderklasse, a 560sel.

there is no question that the 560sel was an improvement to the 116. more leg room. better seats. i quickly considered it the zenith of automotive design.

i still own it. it has 248k. it has been excessively well-cared for. few could guess its age or its mileage. and i still love to run it on houston rentabahn at speeds higher than a century.

in 1996, when i began to consider its replacement, family matters demanded a suburban. so i kept the 126 and added a gmc truck. i passed over the 140's and put in my future order for 2000 ML55 and S500.

in the interim, i test drove cars by renting them in the home of the stars, b hills. i tried e320cabs, xj8's, ml's, ls430's, gs400's. the worst car i ever tried was the ml320[what a rattling piece of junk]. the second worst car i ever tried was the ls430 with the lcd dash.

the lcd dash was so contradictory to safe driving. but at least lexus offered it as an option. which i took advantage of, i returned the lcd dash car back and exchanged it for the more analog one.

my conclusion was that none of these cars surpassed my 560sel. in any way shape or fashion.

so i awaited the 2000 benzes that i had ordered. the first one to appear was the ml55. as soon as i saw it after being advised that it had arrived, i refused to accept it. and then i was called to pick up my s500. when i saw its lcd display, i rejected it.

i said to myself, what i want is the command and control simplicity of my 560sel. and from that, i began to acquire benzes that met my design and driving requirements. i had never purchased used cars before, but now schremmp had forced me to do so if it was to drive benzes similar to the excellence of my 560sel.

my first acquisition was a very cherry 1979 450sel6.9. no miles. what a horse. unfortunately, the 126 sedan offered some things that the 6.9 didn't. more interior space, especially leg room. better brakes. less obnoxious bumpers. a more suitable tranny.

my conclusion is that the 6.9 engine should have been fitted in the 126 sedan body.

my next acquisition was a very cherry 1987 560sec. another great car.

last year, i found a e320cab. no miles. perfect condition. after pulling the passenger airbag and fitting a glovebox and removing the center console, i now have a 124 with driver features that i like...a center console that can hold any style coffee cup, etc.

anyway, studying on these cars, caused me to reflect upon the man responsible for their design - bruno sacco.

now, i want to add some of his other works to my collection. i don't go out of my way to do this, but from time to time, the impulse overwhelms me. this time, it was prompted by a classified for a 140coupe in the star. in my colors. but it was a 1994, 3rd owner in a snow belt location. priced right but a potential caution. so, i concluded that i should check the mbna starmark site to see if any low mileage 140 coupes were out there. there were.


and i have one 1997 on hold for the completion of my purchase. and then i tuned into this amalgam of ranting.

and so i have paused in this acquisition. i have been provoked to doing a real due diligence. my mechanic. a really good one, counsels me that the post 1995 w140c's are good. he says that he has never had one that required the evap replacement. but he also says that he thinks that there are better evap units out there than the ones m-b originally fitted. he also thinks that benz has secretly replaced scores of evap units in a secret warranty program. that may be excessively paranoid, but it would not surprise me if he has got it right.

on the subject of warranty, he tells me that i would not void the starmark if he/his shop does the fluid changes, routine maintenance. IS THIS CORRECT? he says that m-b dealer in houston only needs to get involved in the maintenance of this car when there is a real warranty issue under the coverage of starmark. IS THIS CORRECT? i want it to be...why?

because today i learned another lesson about using a benz dealer for service work. understand, i was one of the original customers of intercontinental motors when pennel opened it in 1976. i knew everyone. it was a conscientious shop.

and then the schnitzers and autonation badmintoned its ownership.

i have no hatred for those who have migrated north of the rio bravo, but the shop at mbna north houston would not be of my choosing today. i tried it today with my 560sec, just to find out if they were capable of servicing a 1997 w140c. and if i was a capable of tolerating their nonsense.

the answer to both is no. hell, no one there even knew what a 560sec was. i wonder what it would have been like had i driven in with the 6.9.

so, one of the questions about acquiring then owning a w140c is that starmark warranty work would require it going into this ring of hell. what do any of you think about that dealer service prospect?

LASTLY, I COULD ABANDON THE acqusition of the w140c and acquire another bullet developed by sacco and his team - a 500e. no starmarking option, but that would allow me to keep it in the hands of my freelance mechanic.

my freelance mechanic says, "buy the s500c. i haven't found them to be that problemattical. if warranty probs arise, the benz dealer can address it. and remember, you won't be without a car to drive".

as to the 500e, he says, "do that one too. but don't make it an either or proposition".

any comments?

In the next week or two I might get the chance to drive a W140. At this point, the W124 260E I have is essentially the nicest car I've ever driven.

Should I drive it? It's 500 class. Will it make me dislike my aging little Benz? It's nice driving the nicest car I've ever driven all the time :-)

__________________
jeremy wood
'88 260E ~200,700 miles
- All stock, except for Blaupunkt "Miami Beach"

Interesting statement...you in essense ordered $160,000 worth of cars and didn't know about the LCD dash etc..and odd that you would pick another ML after disliking one before...I assume you did drive both of these cars before you ordered them..ot did you order them sight unseen/undriven

as for the evap in a 1995 model..I assure you some 1995 models have had problems..that evap core pice for the 140 has been modified many times(per my tech at the MB dealer)..my personal car has had the job done twice..one in 1997 (shortly before I owned it) and once in 2000....BUT the good news is I hear if you pay to replace it at a dealer then MB will give you a goodwill 10 year warranty as long as you own the car
As for the dealer service and starmark...why not take it to a dealer..I have learned my lesson if you ever have a beef with MB over a goodwill fix or something that was done correctly the Zone rep listens to you when you have work done at the dealer....if you have fixes done elsewhere the burden of proof lies on you to convince that the repair was done correctly


Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

let me put it this way, when the ml series was first promoted by benz, it was a spectacular design. i put in an order based on those early design proposals. as you should know, what appeared bore no resemblance to the initial design[show car]. before my ordered car arrived at the dealer's, i rented one that was virtually brand new[less than 100 miles]in beverly hills. less than 24 hours i was returning it. it had rattles out the wazoo and the remote central locking system was not functioning and the windows once down would not go up].

returning to houston, and discussing the problems with my long term friend and service manager, he admitted that the ml's were having these problems. he suggested that i change my order for the forthcoming v8. he felt that it would have the problems resolved.

in the interim, i began to evaluate lexus products. in beverly hills one can long term test almost anything by renting from the budget agency. i tried a gs400 - wonderful rocket but no back seat space. i tried a ls400. the first one had their lcd dash - absolutely horrible to use[and at night a disaster]. i exchanged it for another one that had a more conventional dash. a lovely car.

but owning a lexus where i live made no sense, the nearest dealer was 65 miles away and i found lexus to be a marque that has some other foibles. oh, and when a lexus dealer opened that got closer, closer than the benz dealer, i tried the lexus suv, a lx470. what a horrible car. horrible seats. and the service dept was just a disaster. but at least the dealer had some honor, after 1100 miles of torture he repurchased the vehicle from me for what i had paid him for it.

but lexus had at least one good idea, you had a choice of a conventional dash or the lcd display.

benz unfortunately decided to force the lcd display on all - there was no other option. i found this an intolerable mistake. and my long-term service personnel friends at the benz dealer do not disagree with me.

as to the grand ml, benz went chrysler when it put the full size spare upright within the car. sort of like the jeep products. what a bit of stupidity. an SUV with no room in the storage area.

encountering these bad ideas[imv], i determined that older benzes were the answer. and my outlook has been rewarded. i am pretty certain that current and future benzes as chryslerized will not be on my shopping list. at least not as long as i can acquire low mileage older models.

as i think i said at the get go, my feeling had been that successor vehicles would be improvements. i do not feel that way now.

i shall close with this pov. within the last several months, i drove a very cherry 500e with less than 30k miles. beats any of the new stuff hands down.

so it goes

Every LS 400/$#) I have ever seen has the LCD dash...by that I mean the instruments pointers are actually the digital part..not sure where you found one with conventional instruments
In fact when the car is not started the faces are completely blank.
I too have driven the LS several times before I bought then last two MB's..but decided the car was too soft for my desires
As for a Lexus delaer in Houston I could have sworn that there was a dealer on I-10 near Town and Country Mall that opened very early(Sterling Mc call I believe) ..although I am not sure what area of Houston you are in..you hinted that you were near the MB Houston north..??...last time I checked that was only about 15 miles from the Town and Country area..??

Good luck with the 500E..if that is what your tastes are...I personally like the new E class...as well as the new s class...some of the safety features(which are very important to me) are not available on the older models

by the way what are you driving right now?



Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

well thank you...although I bought a used BMW 325 Convertible and lately I have been driving that car more often....

but yes the SD is fine..it was rough there for a while a couple of years ago...thanks goodness for warranty..:-)


Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

Attached Thumbnails

 

what am i driving as we speak? a mac ibook.

my benz collection, with which i try to rotate the driving is as follows...

1. 1979 450sel6.9. silver, blue leather. ortho seats. 50k

2. 1986 560sel. diamond blue metallic, blue leather. ortho seats. 248k

3. 1987 560sec. arctic white. blue leather. 78k

4. 1995 e320cab. polar white. blue leather. blue top. 9.8k

benzes no longer with me, but the providers of great memories...

5. 1973 220. dark green, tan mb tex. 140k when traded for...

6. 1976 450sel. baby blue. black leather. 200k when traded for...

7. 1985-6 300e. diamond blue metallic, grey leather. traded for 560sel.


and today, i added a w140c to the fleet.

8. 1997 s500c. ruby. black leather. 20k. in fact, i have just returned from making a 250 mile drive in the car back from san antonio.

so, those are the benzes that am driving when i am on the road, behind the wheel.

and i am still thinking of adding a 500e to the fleet.

so they go.....

Good good good. You got the W140C!

In another thread, you wrote,

"just down the road from houston is a reportedly immaculate 1997 s500c with only 20k miles. the colors aren't my favorites, but i telephoned this morning to hold it until i can make the drive on sunday to see it. good thing i did. within an hour of my phone call and deposit, someone else saw it and wanted to buy it. car was on the lot for less than 24 hours.

m-b dealer has starmarked it."

So, this is the car you bought? Most of your cars are white with blue leather. What color combination is this car? What did you pay? It did come with the warranty?

I think you made the right decision. With the exception of the original evaporators being faulty, the other items that may need repairing fall within the normal list of items that any Benz would require. My local MB shop says they replace evaporators on W140's for $2,200, parts and labor, and do it one day. One looooooong day.

The W140's, especially the coupes, are one of my favorite cars, and albeit expensive to own, they are probably the best car Mercedes ever built.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

well, thnx for your kind thoughts.

i agonized over this acquisition, but after a chat with a long-time automotive counselor[the shop foreman at the local benz dealer], i elected to complete the transaction.

as i think i said in my last post, the exterior color is ruby. the interior is black nappa leather.

i would have preferred white or silver, but there were aspects to this car that compelled me to ignore my preferences. it was a one-owner car. purchased in december 1996[as a 1997 model] by an 87 year old plutocrat and his 69 year old wife. it spent all of its life in the relatively benign[no snow, no saltwater] climate of san antonio, texas.

with its first owner, it amassed a grand total of 20, 330 miles. the interior appeared as if uninhabited. it has one minor ding that you have to illuminate just so so as to reveal it.

the dealer starmarked it and priced it at 37,900. on the advice of my m-b dealer shop foreman, who told me that i would be an idiot not to acquire it, i have acquired it.

my shop foreman friend relates that after 1995, evap core problems became less of a feature of operating one of these cars...he says that benz finally improved the quality of the evap unit.

the last thing that i have to say about the w140c is that it is such an overkill when compared to my 560sec. surely this series was the product of a teutonic response to the lexus.

in many respects, i would have preferred that benz had improved the w126c, i.e., more soundproofing, more torque and hp rather than inject such steroids and come up with the w140c.

having said that, the w140's in their improved, bullet-proofed years, as a matter of automotive history, will be considered the zenith of automotive design and construction. their like may never be seen again. i think of this car as the psychic descendant of the m100's.

i am an old lotus aficionado. what i liked about the w126's is how they captured what i liked about my lotus'es in vehicles that did not have to be rebuilt upon every outing. unfortunately for benz, toyota discerned that the us market preferred cadillacs to lotuses. the w140 series was the benz effort to erase their previous mentality so as to get back into the us luxury game that lexus had stolen away.

funny thing, though. after having driven this 140 for 250 miles, i can say that benz still didn't get it. the lexus product that was its target was quieter, traversed road irregularities with more silent aplomb. and did it all with less mass.

based on my collection, this may sound heretical, but benz has forced me to conclude that the japanese have defeated them. i remain confused as to why it is that lexus product goes over road irregularities more quietly than do benz products. especially s class benz products.

oh, excuse me, my e320cab is quieter over road irregularities than any other benz i own. why would that be do you think?

Ruby with black leather. Sounds beautiful.

You know, you promised us in the other thread that you would share pictures of your cars with us. Make sure you include a picture of this car.

I wonder, too, how Lexus makes quieter cars, especially since the W140's have double paned glass.

I also agree with your statement about the W140 the Zenith of automotive design and construction.

Happy motoring.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

again, thnx for thinking i know something. i shall try to learn to use the company digital cam and shoot these cars for you.

it is not the wind noise. benz silenced that, albeit lexus did it without double paned windows.

no, it is the noise of the tires and and wheels running over lane boundary buttons and other road irregularities. i can't understand why it is that benz has failed to attenuate the noise radiated from these suspension impacts.

when visiting LA, i rent xj8's. now there is a car that has less shock travel than any s class benz. and definitely less mass. but it traverses road irregularities and lane boundary buttons with significantly less impact noise.

why is it that benz has failed to equal this level of acoustical attenuation?

for me, it is one of the great mysteries of automotive design.

and i found the post-2000 sonderklasse benzes to be no better in this regard.

as i said, most mysteriously to me, my 1995 e320cab traverses these road irregularities more silently than any other benz that i own or have driven. i cannot wait to find out how the car sounds once i have attenuated the wind noise by fitting the removeable hard top that i have learned might be acquirable.

so they go

I am not sure why this is the case, but I have seen it on benzes from the 70s right up until today. It seems absolutely nothing has been done about it. The most blatant example is probably the 126's in this regard. My guess would be bushings in suspension but I am not sure why really

__________________
currently just 1989 300SE 185k miles

I think he is talking about the GPS navigation system not the digital gauges.

__________________
1985 500SEL 124k miles
2001 Honda Civic EX

Well folks, time to update this long thread:

About a month ago I traded up to a 1998 S 500 L (V140).

If my opinion on how great the W140 series is was based on with my experience on an S 320, now my new S 500 L has up shifted my views to the extreme: there are difinitely very few cars on the road today that can equal the comfort, safety, power and driver satisfaction that the W/V140 provides (and usually they all cost within six figures).

The new addition to the family came with only 22,000 original miles on it, carefully mantained by the local M.B. dealer and as a plus had already the evaporator exchanged (as a 100% warranty job) about a year and half ago.

It has almost ALL the extras you could ask for, including the original factory installed fridge on the truck that can hold 4 botles of wine or 12 cans of your preferred soft-drink/beer. And I say "almost", because sadly the original owner only ommited to order the rear electric sport bucket seats.

A neighbor just received his 2003 S 350 L (facelifted V220)a few days ago. When his car and my car are parked together, the 140 looks imposing and certainly like a Benz. The S 350 looks like a Benz, sometimes like a Lexus, other times like a medium sized B.M.W., and if the light just hits it right, it really looks like a Huyndai Sonata with an expensive and very well done paint job.

Going back to the fact that DaimlerChrysler based the Mayback on the W140 instead of the W220 leaves few doors open for discussion on wich model is superior...

__________________
A. Rosich
CL 500, 1998
S 500 L, 1998
E 320 T, 1995 [Sadly sold ]