I would like to know as well.

Thanks

Well, I'd love to see the propaganda video (remember Herr Goebbels) showing the '140 was the result of 10 years work.

Meanwhile, the 220 - released post Schrempp takeover - is a better car in every way (except it isn't a 4 door saloon SUV like the 140)...maybe MB was onto something but got it wrong (IOW customers wanted a heavy car to save their own butts in a collision, and didn't give a **** about gas mileage or safety of others)...if the 140 was half the price, it would have sold like the Expedition...oh wait a minute....

The 220 S is much more attuned to MB values: cutting edge performance, socially responsible construction, and environmentally responsible.

The 140, kick ass as it was, was the Hummer of sedan/saloons. Huge, over engineered, and too expensive to maintain past its warranty.

Gehen Sie Juergen!!!

Well I can say that my 1995 S-350 is the best automobile I have ever owned. It is my first Mercedes and is built like a bank vault. Has over 155,000 miles and no squeaks, rattles, or looseness in anything. It even still looks like new.

__________________
1995 S-350
370K + SOLD
1952 220B Cabriolet
39K kilometers + SOLD
1998 E300D
310K +
2012 E350 BlueTec
120K

Believe it or not, S320 is actually a better buy when everything is in consideration!!! It's rock solid like any other W140, very well build, yet the repair/service costs is the least of all W140...

P.S. I think S320 was rated best luxury sedan in the class couple times.... can't remember who rated it though....

__________________
1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
http://members.shaw.ca/AKRY/W140_Side.gif

2002 Acura TL Type S
http://members.shaw.ca/AKRY/type_s_side.gif

JMHO: the W140 was, indeed, the best car made up until its time. Indeed, I'd be proud to drive one and I have no doubt it would be rattle-free and a great ride...UNTIL something went wrong. Then, prepare to fork out huge money for repairs unless Starmark covers it.

OTOH the W220 rides better than any 140, gets much better fuel economy, is more collision-friendly (with other cars - w/o sacrificing safety to its occupants) and is priced much more reasonably as a new car. Not to mention, as with all post Y2K MB's, the overall VFM is much better than previously.

All 220 S Class presently sold in the US are LWB and have standard ADS, EBP, ESP, COMAND, a V8 (or V12) ULEV engine, navigation system and 5 Speed Tipshift adaptive program AT. All these were options, upgrades, or not offered on the 1999 and earlier S Class in the US.

No doubt, the second-hand 140's currently available are fantastic automobiles and great values at present used-market prices. However, unless you get one with a warranty, prepare to pay aviation-style maintenance/parts costs when something breaks.

No criticism of the 140 intended, the 220 is a worthy successor and a better car. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

As for me, give me my black/charcoal '01 S430. Passed on a 1999 S600 for similar money.

But ANY MB before another car....

Equipement wise, Ride comfort, design, and everything you can think of on a W220 is better executed than W140.... EXCEPT material quality!!!(No offense to any W220 owner, just my opinion)... that really makes one pondering how W220 would last in the long run....

Andy Kuo

__________________
1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
http://members.shaw.ca/AKRY/W140_Side.gif

2002 Acura TL Type S
http://members.shaw.ca/AKRY/type_s_side.gif

Exactly which materials are you referring to? I've owned and driven a bunch of MB's, and don't have any real complaints about the materials used in the 220 (mine's a US spec '01 S430). It's the tightest, quietest Benz I've driven. I don't see any glaringly cheap plastic or anything; the cup holder design in the 220 is cool; and the new headrests rule.

If you get up into the W220 S600, the whole dash is covered in leather - don't think the 140 600 had that if I'm not mistaken.

I looked seriously at buying a couple of '98 and '99 S500 and S600's, but in the end my wife and I both liked the 220 better on ride, styling, and interior. Still think the 140 kicks butt though...it's a matter of personal taste.

LOL we have a forum seriously "debating" which S Class is "better..." no wonder the rest of the world hates us.....;-)

The '95 and up W140 S600's did indeed have the full leather interior, suede headliner and wood/leather steering wheel . . I'm sure the W220 S600 is just as nice though. . .

My personal opinion is that the 140 just feels "heavier duty" than the 220......to me the leather on the seats and the wood trim appear to be of higher quality...it seems that the materials would last longer in the 140...but hey...considering the price decrease I think the 220 is a great car for the money



warren
1992 300SD 127K
Columbus Ohio

A big reason the 220 drives better than the 140 is the standard ADS 2.1 (Airmatic) suspension. An earlier iteration of ADS was a (rare, from what I've seen) option on the 140. Hopefully, as with the generally bulletproof post-99 4Matic vs. the older, notoriously unreliable/horribly expensive to fix 4Matic system, they've made the newer ADS pretty reliable. I think the long term reliability (or lack thereof) of the suspension system (either the standard ADS or optional ABC - std ABC on W220 S600V) is one of the main things that will answer the question of the 220's long term quality and value, both generally and in relation to the 140 cars.

Would be interested to hear from anyone with long term experience with ADS - either a 220 with over 50k miles, or an earlier model with ADS - does it break? What are the maintenance issues and are they readily resolved? Other comments? Is ABC more or less reliable than ADS?

MB seems determined to roll out ADS to the next gen E Class and possibly the M Class replacement, so they must think they've got it right....comments please

I would be very interested also in what type of initial relaibility the 220 has...and by 50K miles what typical repairs might be needed...one thing is for sure...they must have sold several right off the bat as when I go to Chicago or Dallas..I always see several on used car lots around town...
I also bet the 220 will be very expensive to fix out side of the warranty period..but so a 140..lol

I have driven a 220 for a few miles(5)..and it felt great ..buts its hard to determine much from such a short trip

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

No doubt the more MB popular markets like Dallas, Chicago, and LA see more high mileage S220's (and cars generally). I'd like to hear from more long term S Class owners who have had 140's and 220's to relate experiences with reliability/service downtime.

I knew someone with an early W140 S600 who had a main bearing oil leak that was, to my knowledge, never successfully fixed.

FWIW my '00 W210 (E430W4), bought used at 5000 miles, had the entire steering rack replaced under warranty at ~8k miles due to a serious hydraulic leak; and my '00 ML320 had a ESP steering angle sensor ($$$) replaced under wty. So none of these high tech beasts is immune to parts failures.

My main concern is whether the ADS and other S-Class systems/features are especially prone to premature failure or outrageously expensive fixes (e.g., the W126 and W140 AC condensor replacements at $5k, typical at 100k miles). Or has MB got these high tech systems pretty well locked down and reliable, excluding accidents, abuse, bizarre failures. etc.

When it runs right, the 220 is - agree with the car rags - the best luxury sedan ever made.

I am certainly delighted about the huge response and exchange of views the argument over which is better (the W140 or the W220) has generated.

About two weeks a very good friend of mine bought a '01 S430. He also owns a '96 S320. We put both W140s (his and mine) and his W220 into a small ride test. The excersize consisted of driving the cars at different speeds over a good size speed bump.

Not to the surprise of both of us, the W140s always stayed composed and instead "feeling" the speed-bump, you only could hear the suspension absorbing it ( regardless of speed ).

The W220 stayed somewhat composed at lower speeds (under 10 m.p.h.), but as the speed increased, also the bottoming out of the suspension increased. After 45 m.p.h., the '01 S430 would literally shut your lower back and also jump a little sideways.

The W140s? Well, like a bank vault, they laughed at the speed-bump, stayed always composed and kept their straight direction.

The new air suspension might allow the W220 to be more agile in certain sport situations, but in terms of ride comfort, it just plainly cannot win over the W140.

And, in terms of quality: just park the two cars side by side. Open and shut all the doors and just "hear and feel the difference"! The W140 wins hands down by a large margin.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995

I agree the 220 feels lighter duty.....but even in the short drive I have had in one...it handles much beetr than a 140....I threw the car into curves at speeds I would never have attempted in my car........also as everyone knows the 140 was not nearly as reliable as the 126 car that it replaced
I wonder what the 220 will hold in terms of reliability?



Warren
1992 300SD 128K
Columbus Ohio

Ten years will tell! I can say one thing, although the W140 has a lot more to offer than a W126 (comfort, speed and options) -- I still like the way the W126 (5.6 L V8 at least) drives compared to the S500. The W126 doesn't have the "drive by wire" feel, much more organic, any many would argue, "archaic".