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  #1  
Old 11-14-2007, 11:40 PM
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1998 C230 groans on braking (sometimes)

Hi,

Lately when I hit the brakes (sometimes), especially when I am not going very fast, there will be quite a loud groan type sound from the front of the car. The pads and rotors are fairly new. I did a search and didn't come up with much. What type of inspections should I do to track this down?

Thanks
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:04 PM
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Think it might be the ABS malfunctioning? It groans in action if memory is correct

I would assume there would be a light if it were, but you never know
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current: 08 C300 Luxury , 92 500SL
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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Could ball joints make this type of noise?
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:58 AM
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Ball joints are my guess but it is a pure guess. Can anyone advise the best (fastest easiest) way to inspect the ball joints? Is it more likely the lower joints than the upper?

Thanks
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:34 PM
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When my ball joints and lower control arms were done, the issue wasn't a groan, but rather it sounded like sitting on a worn-out mattress when going over low-speed bumps, not noticeable during braking - kind-of a squeak, not a groan.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2007, 04:45 PM
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I had the squeak when going over speed bumps a while ago but it was the sway bar bushings. This noise is new. It is not the ABS. It actually seems to occur more the slower I am going. I think ball joints is a decent guess except I have no other symptoms. Other than the occaisional noise everything is fine. And I did a search so I think I can inspect the joints now.

So my new question is:

If I do have to change the ball joints, do I really have to remove the hub and bearings?

Mike
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpolli View Post
I
If I do have to change the ball joints, do I really have to remove the hub and bearings?
Mike
No.
When I changed the lower balljoints on my 2000 C 230 K, I unbolted the tierod ends, undid the balljoints, installed the new ones.
Took about 20 min. per side.
P.S. I purchased a small balljoint seperating tool for this job, about $ 20.00.
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2007, 10:13 PM
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Hi Manny,

I like your way better! Please take a look at this thread and tell me if this guy is out to lunch. I don't think there is a defference in the ball joints from 97 to 2000.

Ball Joint Replacement on 1997 C230

Thanks
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2007, 10:14 AM
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I did compliment him on a nice write-up, but that was before I did my own.
As I said, disconnect the idlearm, remove the nut that holds the horizontal part of the b.j., remove the nut that holds the vertical part of the b.j.
Use b.j. removal tool, apply as much pressure as you can & whack the " eye " ( where the b.j. slips into )a few times with a hammer.
It will then pop free.
If it takes you more than 1/2 hour per side, find another occupation.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2007, 10:28 AM
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I'm not the expert, I only relay what I have learned here and can explain in my not-so-technically-inclined way, so thanks for providing the answers, Manny.

I do have to say though, this talk of "groaning" and "bjs" is making me a little uncormfortable
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_w202 View Post
I do have to say though, this talk of "groaning" and "bjs" is making me a little uncormfortable
Well, then check out my personal profil ( occupation ),.... that'll make you really uncomfortable.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:06 PM
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What type of brake pads/rotors are you using and how long have you had them installed.

Did the noise come right after brakes installed or did it just start coming on out of the blue?

I've seen worn control arm bushings give strange geometry during braking causing groans, creeks, knocks while braking.

Also brake chatter at slower speeds right before coming to a complete stop giving a groan noise which is pretty normal.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:16 PM
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The new brakes were in about 4 or 5 months before the noise started happening. They are ATE pads and Balo rotors, both bought as OEM type from Phil. At first I suspected the brakes but the noise just doesn't seem like brake noise in my experience. It is not the little groan that happens right before you come to a complete stop. I had that but it went away when I changed the pads and rotors. Can you elaborate on the geometry issue with the worn control arm bushings? What is the source of that noise?
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manny View Post
I did compliment him on a nice write-up, but that was before I did my own.
As I said, disconnect the idlearm, remove the nut that holds the horizontal part of the b.j., remove the nut that holds the vertical part of the b.j.
Use b.j. removal tool, apply as much pressure as you can & whack the " eye " ( where the b.j. slips into )a few times with a hammer.
It will then pop free.
If it takes you more than 1/2 hour per side, find another occupation.
Before you said to remove the tie rod end. Is that what you meant?

One question is did you remove the tire and if so where did you put the jack?

It seems the spring is held by the control arm which is held by the ball joint...
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:35 PM
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Sorry, I meant the tierod end.
Of course you remove the wheel assembly. ( Then turn the steeringwheel all the way toward the side you're working on ).
I supported the car under the normal jackpoints.
Nothing is going to come flying at you.
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