Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    


  Join us November 1st for Casino Night at the Pelican Parts Open House!
Benefiting LuMind - Research and Treatment for individuals with Down Syndrome
Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
Automated Code Reader for pre-'96 Diagnostics

I have a circuit that automates reading and erasing codes on '95 and older cars. It interfaces to the diagnostic connector of the car in the same manner as Mercedes' pulse code reader or the home-made LED reader does.

The reader has these functions: read a single code, erase a single code, read all codes, and erase all codes. These work with one system at a time. With read all codes by briefly pressing a button only once the circuit automatically reads all the the stored codes, and when finished it continuously scrolls through them on the LED display.

A picture of the circuit on a "bread board" and the schematic are attached. Parts include 2 integrated circuits, 3 transistors, and 10 resistors. Cost of these is about $5 plus shipping from www.mouser.com. A circuit board to mount and connect the components, banana connectors, and buttons for the erase and read functions are additional.

If someone is interested in building this send me an email or PM for a parts list and further details. One of the integrated circuits is a microcontroller that needs to have a program loaded. If I am mailed the microcontroller I will do this for free and mail it back, or a programmer can be purchased for about $40 from Mouser.
Attached Thumbnails
Automated Code Reader for pre-'96 Diagnostics-reader-circuit.jpg   Automated Code Reader for pre-'96 Diagnostics-pulse-code-reader-fet.jpg  

Last edited by bobterry99; 08-23-2008 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Change resistor values of schematic
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,766
How do you clear the Memory ? That is where you still need the standard
Led/sw.
__________________
A Dalton
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:51 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
Hi Arthur. You clear the memory with the single erase or erase all functions.

Here is a detailed explanation of how you would read and erase a single code and what the circuit is doing. You momentarily press the circuit's read button causing it to ground the diagnostic socket for 3 seconds. The circuit then senses the pulses that are output at the socket and counts them. As the count increments it is shown on the LED display. When it is finished counting you may then press the erase button momentarily which causes the circuit to ground the diagnostic socket for 7 seconds.

The erase all function works the same as the above, only the automation is carried a step further. After just once momentarily pressing the read and erase buttons simultaneously the circuit automatically reads and erases all the codes one at a time by grounding the socket for 3 seconds, counting the pulses for the code, grounding the socket for 7 seconds, and repeating.

I first tried to do something like this 5 years ago using only electronic hardware. I remember posting somewhere about this and hearing from you back then. That design had limited success because electrically the pulses are not the same for all systems, and that circuit could work with some but not others. This new design with the microcontroller solves that problem, and because the functionality is implemented in software it's simple to have additional features like read or erase all codes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:59 AM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,923
Nice gadget! Love stuff like this.

The biggest problem probably is remembering the needed codes (button "pushes" and how many "pushes") that are needed to do the 'important' things.

Of course, you could put a "menu" label on the "enclosure" and that would solve that problem nicely.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,766
I remember talking to you about it it.
I like it in the sense that it is auto scan, but the point I make is there is there also an Adaptation Memory Reset feature that you can do with the manul tool to Reset the Memory [ Adaptation ] . That is a feature that is needed when you change a part to get the ECU back to Zero Mean. That would require going back with an a 6 sec initiation AFTER all codes are clear and a Single Flash has verified codes are clear. You can not reset Adaptation Memory until After all codes are clear.
__________________
A Dalton
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF View Post
The biggest problem probably is remembering the needed codes (button "pushes" and how many "pushes") that are needed to do the 'important' things.
I could have four buttons labeled "Read 1", "Read All", "Erase 1", and "Erase All". This could be implemented with a 2nd microcontroller that read the state of the buttons and gave a command to the other one, or it could be done with a single microcontroller that has more inputs and outputs than the one I am using.

I presently have it programmed like this. Once the read button is pressed a 2-second timer starts in the program. If the button is released before the 2 seconds elapse, then a "read 1" is executed. If the erase button is also pressed during the interval an "erase all" is executed. If the read button is not released and the 2 seconds elapse, then a "read all" is executed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton View Post
...But the point I make is there is there also an Adaptation Memory Reset feature that you can do with the manul tool to Reset the Memory [ Adaptation ]...That would require going back with an a 6 sec initiation AFTER all codes are clear and a Single Flash has verified codes are clear.
I believe my circuit will clear adaptations. The time interval for grounding the diagnostic to clear adaptions is the same as it is to erase a code (6 to 8 seconds). So when all codes are cleared a "read 1" followed by an "erase 1" or a single "erase all" should work.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,766
<<I believe my circuit will clear adaptions. The time interval for grounding the diagnostic to clear adaptions is the same as it is to erase a code (6 to 8 seconds). So when all codes are cleared a "read 1" followed by an "erase 1" or a single "erase all" should work.>>

Possibly, but I doubt it. I have done many. Resets will not work except for the earlier '93 HFM. Anything later has a definate different time hold for initiation between clear and reset. Key cycling is also different .
That would be nice and make the tool worth the added electronics, but not really needed. Good Job.
__________________
A Dalton
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
That being the case, then a program modification will do the trick. The erase button can be made to act exactly as the button of the "homebrew" tool. If the erase is held for longer than 1 second, then the 7-second pulse is canceled and the button gives manual control of the diagnostic socket to the user. In this case the diagnostic socket is grounded for as long as the erase button is pressed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,766
That would do it .. A manual over-ride, so to speak.
The problem with memory resets is one does the hold and key cycle procedure , but the results are not known or verified. [ you only assume that you hold procedure did it] .
To verify a memory resets, you would have to go and get the actual adaptation values with a scanner to see if they reset, b/c the LED system does not verify like the Single Flash does for code clear.
And the Single Flash clear does not verify on the N/59 DM until all Emmissions selt test have been performed , regardless of memory reset. [ that is so you can't cheat on an E-Test.] There is no way you will get N/59 to initiate after a code clear procedure until ALL self test have been completed, regardless of the tools over-ride or the manual tool.
__________________
A Dalton

Last edited by Arthur Dalton; 08-22-2008 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:13 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,923
It's a nice tool but the complications make it an nice "engineer's" tool. Too complicated for the average MB DIYer.

More "buttons" would be better than seguences requiring different push-times.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,766
I agree...if you want to go that route , you can get an actual Laptop interface kit for $59 that will do anything a scanner can and get you Engine mangement values and spec. info.
The led/flash is just a quicky owner retrieve and to make it any more electronically sophisticated is probably not worth the trouble b/c of it's limitations to begin with. The simple $5 led/sw is fine for a DIYer.
One of the main concepts of the tool from the get-go was to get to codes and such without having to get into scanners and HHT tools. It is specifically a Poor Mans scanner by design, with the emphasis on simplicity, low cost, and local/R-Shack components . [ DIYer friendly]
But, I do like that you are searching for a second generation upgrade and applaude your efforts.
I worked on an interface upgrade for a while, but then found them already available, so dropped it.

Sometimes the original Mouse Trap is the best suited for the job.
__________________
A Dalton

Last edited by Arthur Dalton; 08-22-2008 at 03:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton View Post
I agree...if you want to go that route , you can get an actual Laptop interface kit for $59 that will do anything a scanner can and get you Engine mangement values and spec. info.
Arthur, what kit is this? A $59 laptop interface would be terrific, because there is a problem with my circuit. It's not that it's too complicated to use, because it is in fact very simple. The problem is that nobody is making them, and if someone wants one they have to go to some effort to order the parts and build it for themself.

I have a Carsoft-type interface that I bought from eBay for $130. It is the only alternative to an expensive Palm or AST scanner that I know of that simplifies the process of reading codes on the pulse systems of these older cars. The price is good, but it is only able to read/erase codes from a few of the systems on my '91 300SL.

My Carsoft interface works fine on '96 and newer Mercedes and is for sale.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,790
Looks good! I think you might want to raise the current limit resistors a bit. I think you might be exceeding the total port current spec of 90mA or the total device current spec of 95mA. That might be why the "0" appears dimmer than the "1".
__________________
1998 C230 265,000 miles
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:25 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,923
The 150 ohm resistors rated at Logic "1" (> 2.2V) or Logic "0" (< 0.8) is 25 ma max sink or source, so the resistors appear ok.

The only interface to the outside world is the FET and it can take the current/voltage.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Last edited by JimF; 08-22-2008 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas, Atlanta
Posts: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpolli View Post
That might be why the "0" appears dimmer than the "1".
It is dimmer! Though somehow the camera exaggerated it. I think the reason for this is that the current for the right-digit is switched by an N-type MOSFET with a drain to source voltage of .1 volts, while the left-digit is switched by a P-type with a d-s voltage of over 2 volts, so the segments of the right digit are receiving considerably more current. The P device could be replaced with an N device so that the digits would both have the same brightness. This would require an additional transistor and resistor to invert the signal driving the replacement N.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page