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  #16  
Old 05-28-2009, 03:13 PM
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aTOMic does ..read the post..
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton View Post


aTOMic does ..read the post..
Wow, ur right. I missed that. That is a terrible idea! The engine fan is just plastic, it's not meant to spin at 6000rpm's, the blades will shoot off and go through the hood, radiator, and engine bay wiring. It's not pretty, I've seen it on BMW's.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2009, 03:47 PM
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Yeah..brilliant.

Plus he is convinced that the Viscous do not have Safety RPM cut out for that reason...guess I will notify Benz of their mistake in the Factory Service Manuals.

Cooling specs - Viscous Fan
Section 20.0020: FSM

Saftey Fan cut-out:

Engine RPM-4500
Fan RPM - 3250 RPM
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Last edited by Arthur Dalton; 05-28-2009 at 05:16 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2009, 05:30 PM
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No elec fans + nonfunctional engine fan = quick overheat in traffic.
The twine "lockup" is a limp home repair, not a permanent fix

How does the fan positively lock to the pulley at high temps yet slip at high RPMs? I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious as to HOW it works. Cant be viscous slip between vanes (a la torque converter) because if the viscous clutch is engaged it is virtually LOCKED to the shaft, isn't it? The viscous clutch test of turning the fan while hot & engaged depends on that condition. Cannot be turned by hand w/eng off. Who has dissected one?

Mr. Dalton you seem like the kind of guy who has a non-contact tachometer - I wonder how fast the aux fans spin? I'm guessing 5-6k RPM. I vote we go "Mythbusters" on this quandary by spinning an engine fan to destruction. And yes, Arthur, I AM "brilliant", my intelligence surpassed only by my modesty. You are a great contributor to the tech forums which causes me to be especially disappointed by your affront.
Thanks,
-Tom

P.S. The statement in my previous post did not show the smilie I put in ( should be " I strongly recommend the engine OFF method ").

CWW: We are not talking about bmws here, we all know the Benz is the better built car. If you want clarification see my thread re W210 spring perch failure.
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2009, 06:18 PM
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Viscous fans have two chambers ..a reservoir chamber and a working chamber. And the working chamber fills at a certain factory temp spec. [96C-104C] and it stops circulation again at 3200 Fan RPM, which equates to Engine RPM of 4500 . It is not the vescosity of the fluid that couples the input shaft to the output..it is the velosity of the fluid [ silicon based]
I do not have Aux Fan speeds in RPM, as they are not noted in RPM per the same Manual. They are listed simple as Stage 1/2
I do have a prop LED RPM meter ..I will try it somtime.

Our disagreement is you can not see how these fans can possibly have an RPM dis-couple , and Me and the factory know better...they CAN and they DO.
And we know WHY they have the saftey RPM cut-out too.........
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Last edited by Arthur Dalton; 05-28-2009 at 08:17 PM.
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  #21  
Old 05-28-2009, 08:53 PM
CWW CWW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aTOMic View Post
No elec fans + nonfunctional engine fan = quick overheat in traffic.
The twine "lockup" is a limp home repair, not a permanent fix

How does the fan positively lock to the pulley at high temps yet slip at high RPMs? I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious as to HOW it works. Cant be viscous slip between vanes (a la torque converter) because if the viscous clutch is engaged it is virtually LOCKED to the shaft, isn't it? The viscous clutch test of turning the fan while hot & engaged depends on that condition. Cannot be turned by hand w/eng off. Who has dissected one?

Mr. Dalton you seem like the kind of guy who has a non-contact tachometer - I wonder how fast the aux fans spin? I'm guessing 5-6k RPM. I vote we go "Mythbusters" on this quandary by spinning an engine fan to destruction. And yes, Arthur, I AM "brilliant", my intelligence surpassed only by my modesty. You are a great contributor to the tech forums which causes me to be especially disappointed by your affront.
Thanks,
-Tom

P.S. The statement in my previous post did not show the smilie I put in ( should be " I strongly recommend the engine OFF method ").

CWW: We are not talking about bmws here, we all know the Benz is the better built car. If you want clarification see my thread re W210 spring perch failure.
No need to send this to MythBusters, there are pics all over google. Exploding engine fans are a real problem for some BMW's, mainly the E38.

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  #22  
Old 05-29-2009, 09:58 PM
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Man. what a mess! Thanks for the pic CWW.

Arthur, I believe they can decouple I just don't understand how it occurs. And please get back to me on the RPM on those aux fans. BTW I wanted to PM you but got a msg that you don't receive PMs - what gives?

The GOOD news is that I received my parts ONE DAY after I placed the order (at 3PM no less); I cant wait to get it fixed and the string removed so you guys can stop worrying about my car! By calling Phil at Fastlane/Peachparts I saved $100 from the cheapest I could find it elsewhere!! ($155 vs. $255)

Happy Motoring
-Tom
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Spaces in sig so as not to screw up the SEARCH; every time someone searches for that MB they don't want my sig!

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Last edited by aTOMic; 05-29-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-24-2010, 01:37 PM
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Fan clutches can be a pain. Keep in mind that only Sachs is the OEM for the 119 series. Yes, they are $400 even from the cheapest sources. After checking around I finally just bought one from Phil on this site.

I tried 3-4 Chinese brands (remarketed by Behr etc), and although they fit, operationally they are a mess. These cheap fans are made to fit thousands of motors, from automotive to generators to tractors to backhoes. They have a preset off/on and they are built to behave quite differently than the Sachs. I saw where the Behr's will fit a 2004 Bobcat loader also. Same clutch.

The cheap fans basically are hard to stop. They'll drag a big V8 with huge fan lockups, and your motor will make enough noise to wake the neighbors. Not to mention mileage/efficiency. Only under certain situations do these cheap fan clutches disengage. They are made for a steady-rpm type motor.

The cheapies will come on and stay on until the air moving over the radiator is near 170deg F. Then they'll turn off for 2-3 minutes, then back on when air gets to the 190deg F level. And stay on. They are NOT made for Mercedes Benz, although the physically and mechanically fit.

Now the Sachs (OEM) which are built specifically for MBs, will stay on for about 30 secs at engine start. The fluid moves around and the fan will quit/disengage. As the air temp gets warmer, the Sachs will GRADUALLY engage - unlike the Bears that are either off/on 100%. So, around 185deg F the Sachs will find a good fan engagement, about 30% engaged, and keep the motor cool the way it was designed - WITHOUT a 100% lockup and ensuing issues.

A fully engaged fan running at 4k RPM is a danger and a disaster waiting to happen. I contacted Behr about this, and their only reply was "it fits many engine manufacturers".

So lesson learned from someone trying to be cheap - in this case save yourself the trouble and get the OEM.

Last edited by pzzant; 02-25-2010 at 01:05 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2010, 12:29 PM
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pzzant

what about German made Behr, That's what I used, and I think it works as it's supposed to
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2010, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennish View Post
what about German made Behr, That's what I used, and I think it works as it's supposed to

I use K6 JRFs air conditioning diagnostic protocol to get the supposedly accurate engine temp etc ,(Number 6 in the diagnostic mode) that I use to monitor engine in my notes, and my posts.


My 60-65 mph highway temps have been around 67-71 C here in NY area when its in the 30s outisde . Then when I am driving back in the city, temps get to 85c fairly steadily. Then when I am driving with the rapid starts etc trying to diagnose a flat spot I have mentioned in another post

400 SEL BREAKING UP AROUND 1500 RPM

temps get to 103C and prolly even higher if I continued.

Somone suggested that this fluctuation in temps is not normal. The gauge on instrument cluster tracks the air conditioning display but never gets as high as fast as the ( I assume ) more accurate air conditioning display shows.

My question has 2 parts . Do you think that these fluctuations are abnormal, and if so can they affect air flow mixture etc .
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2010, 07:56 PM
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There were also two different fan clutches....moreso they engaged at higher/lower temperatures. I remember original Behr fan clutches being either red or yellow colored hubs.

The last fan clutch failure I had, the engine fan was pretty much locked...even when the engine was spinning at near redline! It sounded like a freight train. And that was whenever ambient temp was above 50F. The engine sure did run COOL though! I'm not sure the plastic W124 fan could do much damage if it grenaded...most of those BMW's have metal fans that are really dangerous when spun.
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  #27  
Old 03-03-2010, 01:47 PM
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I'm happy with my Meyle on the M113 engine.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:05 AM
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I have a Behr on my 83 euro 500 sec
I guess its working
how can you tell?
spotted a sachs at the junkyard
how can you tell a good working one?
Mine is rusty & I might just try this sachs off of a 84 500
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:32 AM
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  #30  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:35 AM
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got the sachs from the junkyard
its a 92 for the least 83 to 89.
looked at the 89 but it was off a 89 w over 200K so it was orig n past its usefulness tho it seemed fine

my 197K w126 has a behr
its always running tho it does change speed

it was hot today & it ran 85/90 few times 100

new radiator behr german & new mb thermo

problem: how to get old fan off
I wd40d the 10,mm nuts
I try to loosen them to the left & the who;le power steering shaft turns when I try to loosen the nuts

Do I need to grab the power sterring hubs?
How do I get them off?
Mine are terribly rusty

Help my sec
it wants to take to the roads

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