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  #1  
Old 11-04-2001, 06:10 PM
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Question 560SEC Timing Chain and Guides ready to replace?

Greetings All!

My '89 560SEC runs well, and I am a happy camper every time I slide behind the wheel.

Having 129,000 on it, and reading up on the subject, I have to ask about the timing chain, guide and tensioner.

Depending on who you ask, the guides are:

a) composite, and last a long time with no trouble; or

b) plastic, and become brittle with time and can cause the engine to self-destruct.

I had the passenger side valve cover off, and everything looked good. The two guides that are visible appeared to be a darkened with age, but otherwise appeared intact.

Also depending on who you ask, the chain is:

a) good for another 20,000 miles; or

b) overdue for replacement.

Again, the duplex chain looked good.

Is there any objective way to resolve these issues? What is the official MB position? Is that realistic?

Regards,

Tom

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  #2  
Old 11-04-2001, 07:09 PM
benzat
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mine looked like that...and I was told it was 5 degrees off and 10 is the max.

so I had everything replaced
chain rials etc.

just to be on the safe side

well when they opened up the chain they found other problems
one of my guide rails was chipped (end broken off)
and the master link was put on backwards.

I am so glad I had it done!! made a major difference in starting the car, the pick up, and the smooth ride now.
to replace everything it cost me 975.00 but well worth it

benzat
1982 380 SEC
118,000 miles
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2001, 05:32 PM
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The chain could last until 150K, but look at all the exposed guides, as they do get brittle and cause the chain to pop when they break.

Search the archives for directions on checking the timing chain stretch and have it changed if it has stretched too much.

When you have it done, consider replacing the plastic bits of the cam-oilers, too. You can get this done for closer to $600. Cheers, Andrew Seidel.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2001, 07:24 PM
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Excellent thoughts, I shall consider the cam-oilers as well. I have read in Star magazine about those.

Thanks for feedback, anybody else?

Regards,

Tom
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2001, 07:50 PM
MIKE FREEMAN
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the answer to this one is entirly yours,if youre lucky in vagas maybe you'll be lucky with the car.
it's $400.00 before it breaks or $4000.00 after!
FEELING LUCKY?
MF
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2001, 09:27 AM
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Mike,

Your reply is certainly amusing, but not very helpful. Please don't take any offense, because I have read many useful and informative posts over your user name.

Some have said that the degree of slack is an indicator, i.e. after a certain amount of slack the timing chain "slaps" the chain guides, promoting breakage. I plan to investigate the amount of slack and try to make an informed decision.

Thanks for all of your posts, including yours Mike

Regards,

Tom
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2001, 12:28 PM
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How can the link be in backwards?
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'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2001, 01:36 PM
benzat
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my car came with a single chain and the other owner replaced it and put the master link on backwards I saw it who knows how they did it but let me tell you thats just one unbeliveable thing the other owner did to the car..

the other owner also bought about 5 feet of hose instead of replacing the monovalve..and Im going to find out what he did to the aux. fan today it runs all the time and the wires are cut.

the other owner also decided to change the rims to 15" in front and 16" in the back without changing any front or rear end parts to run proper..(the car came with 14" rims on it) needless to say I have all new front end parts and brake parts..etc.

cant find any service records for the car from 1985 to 1998 (when I bought the car) even called Mercedes and no records so he was a do it yourself flunkie or took it to a shop that had no clue how to fix Mercedes Benz and he had an earl shib paint job on it..

with all the money I have put into the car I wouldnt get rid of it Im glad I own this car!

benat (benz with an attitude)
1982 380 SEC
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2001, 05:09 PM
MIKE FREEMAN
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You missed my point entirly.
I would consider anything over 120000 miles a gamble with out a timing chain,tensioner and new rails.
MF
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2001, 06:06 PM
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Mike,

Why 120,000 miles? Is that a MB number?

Thanks,

Tom
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2001, 07:51 PM
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Again. How can a link be on backwards. The chain does not have a front or back. I'm not aware the link has one either, or can think of a reason why it matters.
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'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #12  
Old 11-06-2001, 08:10 PM
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He is suggesting that you change NOW at 120K, since it is reccommended that the V-8's have a timing chain replacement at 100K. Remember, this chain is long, very long at 198 links. Good time to check out the upper chain rails too.

Now a question for future reference: Is it possible to replace the upper chain rails without having to pull the front cover?
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2001, 08:32 PM
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Since no one else has an answer for my question, I may have just found one. The manual states that the link "must be inserted from behind", but no reason is given.

I will offer one.

The rivet can only be positioned in one way. The rivet being pressed must face outward. I can think of no physical reson why the rivet must be placed in this position.
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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #14  
Old 11-06-2001, 08:35 PM
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That's what I get for not reading my post befor submitting.

What I mean is that the TOOL can only be positioned in one way, mandating the rivet to be pressed be facing outward.
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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #15  
Old 11-07-2001, 10:43 AM
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Mike Tangas,

Upper rails were visible but not accessible when I pulled my valve cover to have a look. Not enough clearance between front cover, and even if there was a way to pull them, it would be way to easy to drop something down into the black hole, with no easy way to recover it.

Interesting idea, but it doesn't sound practical to replace the upper rails by themselves.

Tom
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