What Does The Cash for Clunkers Goop Ruin? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

long-gone · #1 09-04-2009, 09:11 PM

At one of the junk yards I frequent there has only been only one decent W124 there for nearly a year, the only Benz there. Now with the cash for clunkers program they seem to have picked up several Benz's, BMWs, a few Jag's and other good Euro's.

Now, I know they pour some gunk in the crankcase that hardens but what exactly does it ruin? Does this stuff drain down into the oil pan and come back up through the filter or does it harden right in the head? does it just plug the oilways and seize a motor from lack of oil? Are the heads salvageable? Can a machine shop boil out any of the gunk in the oil galleries?

I know the fuel distributors, radiators, heater cores and anything not in contact with the oil are still good. I tried to take the oil filler cap off one and it wouldn't budge, but mines pretty hard to get off too without some tool for leverage.

BTW one '90 190E 2.6 has a 5-speed, would that bolt up to a 91 300E 2.6? If the answer is yes, I may start a thread on how to do the conversion.

Matt L · #2 09-04-2009, 09:14 PM

It isn't that it hardens. It is very fine sand and not cement.

The goop will wear out every moving part that is in contact with engine oil. The head castings may be usable, but none of the valvetrain parts.

Avarec · #3 09-04-2009, 09:19 PM

that 5speed is straight forward swap, go for it

long-gone · #4 09-04-2009, 09:28 PM

Hi Matt, Then would it ruin the cam bearing journals? how about the cam? Has anyone done a study on the average extent of the damage done throughout a whole motor by the time it seizes?

Avarec, what would a good price be for the 5-speed? He said he'd sell me the head complete (the non-clunker one) for $150. I'm guessing the tranny would be about the same. [edited to clarify] So, you think the measurement from the bolt-up face of the motor to the end of the output shaft are the same? (the overall lengths of the trannies are the same?)

Matt L · #5 09-04-2009, 09:39 PM

The camshaft-lifter contacts are the hardest working surfaces of an engine. Those will be ruined. It takes very little wear to get through the surface hardening of a camshaft or lifter and into the "soft" metal underneath. It's still pretty hard inside those parts, but not hard enough to last more than twenty minutes or so.

The camshaft journals and bearings are also under a lot of stress when pushing those valve springs. None of that stuff is going to be at all usable.

halsk · #6 09-04-2009, 09:42 PM

Not sure I understand how you plan on re-building a junker auto.
My understanding that the VIN is recorded just so the car can not be restored - they ain't giving out $4500 so the car can get back on the road again.

Johnhef · #7 09-04-2009, 10:05 PM

Forget about any part the Sodium Silicate comes in contact with, thats why it was used for this program, so no part of that motor can be salvaged.

It hardens into glass basically, plugging any pathways through the engines and heads that oil may travel, also oil coolers, and turbos if oil fed as well.

long-gone · #8 09-04-2009, 10:10 PM

Not sure how it was extrapolated that I'm trying buy a clunker and restore it. That hadn't even crossed my mind, but it'd be nice to say, buy the head off an early-mid 90s car and have it overhauled, on the shelf, and ready to swap when you come across a well maintained '90s gem with an inevitably blown head gasket for $800 that the owner just wants to rid himself of.

Actually, the questions are to help better ascertain what mechanical engine parts are still salvageable after a C/C demise.

long-gone · #9 09-04-2009, 10:16 PM

So it does harden? The sand thing had me hopeful, as I understand the motors only run for maybe a minute after the pour it in (ie: some parts might incur only minimal to no affects by the short time the mains gave out)

hookedon210s · #10 09-04-2009, 10:34 PM

I believe the dealers are supposed to run the engines with the sodium silicate solution until they lock up. Doubtful that any oil lubricated part is salvageable. Mark

babymog · #11 09-04-2009, 11:11 PM

Here's a video posted on the diesel forum, a 126 gasser meeting its C4C death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jstfzd2zsIk

Johnhef · #12 09-05-2009, 12:15 AM

yes it does harden.

see my video of the 560SEC we had to kill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUdDyCfNLw&feature=related

hookedon210s · #13 09-05-2009, 08:33 AM

I watched the video. IMHO an absolutey insane policy and terrible waste. Mark

JamesDean · #14 09-06-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookedon210s

I watched the video. IMHO an absolutey insane policy and terrible waste. Mark

completely agree. I actually did not know they were destroying the motors in all the cars that were taken in..I thought they were just junking them....such a waste...You know for $4500 one probably could have outfitted that 560 with a modern fuel system/engine management and got its economy up quite a bit...perhaps true for a lot of the now deceased motors...

86560SEL · #15 09-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

Here's a video posted on the diesel forum, a 126 gasser meeting its C4C death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jstfzd2zsIk

Me and my dad watched both of these the W126 sedan and the black coupe. Very hard to watch this to perfectly good running cars, especially with low miles. The W126 looks like mine only mine is an I6.

At the end the guy said "thanks Obama". Hopefully he was being sarcastic, because I think this CFC is the dumbest waste of $ I have ever seen. I could have thought of something a little less pleasant to say!

Also I read that the instructions to the dealers say NOT to run engines over 2000 rpms with this stuff in the engine, yet most are running them full throttle!

I have seen some cars on the net and stories where some cars have exploded or overheat and catch on fire! There was a Volvo S80 that caught on fire because they were revving to like 5K RPMS for 4 minutes. There was also a fire at a local dealership here when a cars engine burst into flames and caught other CFC cars on fire and set woods on fire!