EXCELLENT input, everyone. Thanks for taking the time to post it all.

------ Question: are the engine/trannies in the W210 series the same as in the W163s (similar years/models). For example: E320/ML 320? Seven passenger seating is interesting....

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jcyuhn -- long time, my friend. Thanks for the note. Yes, I've been souring the forums looking for tidbits of info. But this thread has been a real wealth. Glad to see you're still driving the wagon and it's done so well for you. I'm in a '97 volvo 960 wagon. Best car I've ever had (150k). One thing I'm not sure I like about the 430s is what appears to me to be a lack of room in the engine compartment (front of the motor). I've never compared it side by side to a 320 though... Great recommendation.

Paul, with nearly 7k posts, you're gonna feel like a broken record Another great recommendation, man. Great to hear about the solid evaporators. And yes, I'd definitely stick to an 01-2 model. Suprising that the 6 and 8 cylinder are so similar in economy. How about performance?

Ed, thanks. Will do on the CPSensor. Tex, interesting about the 211. To me, they don't look as "MB" as the previous generation. Too rounded, I think is what strikes me. If I did go W211, it would definitely be a 2007 or so model. However, that is 2x the cost of a W210.

Geeky, service advisors get plenty of crediblity. In fact, you've seen all the red faced 1st gen MB owners. What is your opinion of the ML320s? A "lot" of 210s, eh? Excellent bullet points, sir. Nearly all of those are all very DIY friendly. Thanks for the W211 warning. -- '73 Riv, eh? I have a '73 mustang convertible with a 408 stroker cleveland.

Bill, good stuff. Thanks for posting. I think a '56 chevy would be too primitive for me though. Kidding....

Geeky knows his stuff. His post reminded me that I'm seeing a bit of seepage from the valve cover gaskets on my car. Just noticed it at the last service. Not a problem yet, but will need some attention in the future.

The 210 isn't as rust resistant as the 124, that's for sure. Just make sure you're looking at Texas cars and there's no issue. Not like it's hard to buy a used MB in Dallas.

The V6 would be a bit easier to work on, but I don't expect the difference is all that large. Plugs and such would be the same on V6 & V8 - a bit tight, but not too bad. The V6 has about a foot of open space between the serpentine belt and the radiator; I expect the V8 is a bit tighter but don't know how much.

The 163 is the same basic drivetrain as the 210 4matic cars. There are probably detail differences in the engine/transmission, but it's essentially the same setup. Don't tell me you're gonna buy an ML?!?

Thanks; and yeah, I've had the whole "It's going to cost WHAT!?!" conversation a few times... "Well, it's German and it sure as hell wasn't cheap to buy, what exactly made you think it was cheap to fix?" Or the ever-popular "These cars aren't supposed to do this, everyone says they run forever." "They do run forever." "Then why is it broken!?" "Er... Because you haven't done an oil change or anything else on it in the past 30,000 miles and 2 years?"

Yeah. Anyhow.

As far as the MLs go... In a word: Run. There are few things that should make you more uncomfortable than shelling out your own money for a ML. Amongst them are Volkswagen products (don't ask; you think this post is long? By the time I get done with THAT the letters on my keyboard will have worn off and I'll have a twitchy eye. Yeah, we did VW/Audi service too. I'm still in therapy for it. The good news is that the doctors say the straitjacket can come off soon if I don't have any more episodes...) and being threatened with being forced to drive a 1992 Suzuki Swift for the rest of your life. A 3 cylinder one. With a miss in cylinder 2 and an a/c compressor that won't shut off, a slipping automatic that intermittently won't go into reverse, and a radio that plays nothing but Britney Spears' Greatest Hits. Turned up to 11. Sitting on a bald right rear tire from Wal-Mart with a tread wear rating of 15,000 and 3 donut spares.

I don't know what, exactly, it is that went wrong with the MLs. I've heard all kinds of theories and speculation, but the bottom line is that in 3 years, @ an average of 25-40 cars/week (total, not 25-40 MLs), I think I met two people with MLs that were happy with them.

You could make an argument that being relatively inexpensive as far as Mercedes go, they attract a different "class" of buyer that really doesn't expect the ongoing price one pays for German engineering. And that may very well be true; the engines and transmissions aren't really any less reliable in my experience than they are in any of the other C/E/S/etc. cars that used the same 3 valve engines and 5G-Tronics (although the MLs seemed to have a much higher probability of upper oil pan gasket leaks than anything else did, for whatever reason. That's a fun job, too. LOTS of fun. Wouldn't call it a DIY job unless you're the masochistic type; if you are, feel free to enjoy hours [and hours... and hours...] of giddy, gleeful pain and suffering.) But the rest of the cars-the electrical system and such-are just, for lack of a better term, "flaky".

I can only give you one concrete reason to not buy one-they chew through brakes at an utterly astonishing rate. Most of my customers were lucky to hit 20,000 miles on a set of front brakes, I don't recall anyone doing more than 25k. And we were using OE/OEM parts. Other than that, I mean... I can't point at them and go "well all the window regulators will fail simultaneously, then the fuel tank will fall out and the steering wheel will come off in your hands" or anything. They just seem to be more problematic than other Mercedes are.

And I think you'll find that, if you're looking at them specifically for 7-seat capacity, a regular E class wagon would be better. The 3rd row seat in the ML was optional, and while I've never seen a ML with the option, judging by the cargo area behind the second row seat, I think it's probably reserved exclusively for people under 4ft tall that have no legs.

Finally, for what it's worth, I think they're awful to drive. I cannot find a comfortable position for the seat-eventually the angle of the pedals ends up bothering my feet-and the whole thing just feels really cheap to me. It does not at all make me feel like I'm driving a Mercedes.

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As far as the V6 vs. V8 in the 210 goes: The V6 has more room, obviously, but the V8 isn't too bad, I don't think. I've never done any actual work on either one myself, but the 210 certainly isn't packed as tightly as say, the M119 was in the W124-where you open the hood, look down, look at the technician, say "ha, sucks to be you" and walk away.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention on the 210s (although this is common in newer cars period, irrespective of brand or model, in my experience); they have fluid filled engine mounts. Over time they crack, leak, and collapse. If the car's got 80k+ on it and it hasn't had them done, it probably needs them.

And the '73 Mustangs were nice cars; the '71-73 has always been my favorite body style--closely followed by the '69-70.

__________________
-Kevin
Past: '67 250SE, '86 & '87 560SELs
Projects: '73 Buick Riviera, '75 350SE (grey market, stick shift)
Cars that actually run under their own power:'87 300D Turbo, '03 Corvette Z06, '07 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Limited

Thanks, Jcyuhn. I wasn't seriously considering and ML... my friend mentioned them, possibly getting one for himself. The more I read about them on various sites and this one, the more red flags that hit me in the chops. We're very lucky living in Dallas. Always a huge lot of these discarded MBs to choose from

Kevin, man ..... what a post. Excellent info. I was driving home from work a few minutes ago when I pulled up next to and ML... I actually changed lanes to get away from it. Don't need any of that bad mojo rubbing of on my 960! Thanks for taking the time to write all of that up. So cool for us to hear the horror stories from a former company man that saw the customers/cars every day, and had to break a lot of bad news. You guys have convinced me that the '01-02 210s is the right move. I sent my wife the link to this thread and you had her cracking up..... "4 feet tall.." Greatness.

Post a pic of your Buick. I used to work for Year One in Atlanta (mid '90s) when we were still a small company. Love the 455 Buicks... Before this '73 convert, I had a '71 Boss 351 that I spent five years redoing and then sold. Awesome car. This one is more of a cruiser. Still trying to work out all the bugs (former show car). I converted it from ginger to white interior, and converted the 2v 351c to a 408c stroker/roller hydraulic cam motor. Once I get her dialed in, should be an easy 400 hp at the crank. Here are a few pix:









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