M103 - oil/coolant leak front of engine - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

86560SEL · #16 10-25-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suginami

It could leak like this for years and give you no other problems.

Really? I didnt know that. I thought once it started that it was not long before it would be ready for the salvage yard unless it was replaced. I have owned the car for 13 months, but not sure how long its been leaking. I know it was slowly losing coolant last winter, but I didnt have to add much. Strange, but during the summer, I never had to add any. I have not checked the coolant level in awhile (about 2 months), but the low coolant light has not came back on and the car runs cool (about 78°-82°C).

I will check the coolant next time I drive it. I should also mention I only drive this car about 2 days per week (about 80-90 miles per week).

86560SEL · #17 10-25-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzman

I too believe you should fix the leak and keep the car. I would use a engine degreaser and clean up any traces of oil. You could continue to monitor the leakage and fluid levels. Records for my 300CE indicate that the head gasket was leaking out oil as far back as 2003. I just had the top end rebuilt this year and it was still operating fine since the leak was external and did not affect the engine compression. If your car is in otherwise good health, I would go ahead and do the head gasket at a independent specialist. With that many miles you would be wise to check and replace the valve seals and guides if they have never been done. The M103 tends to have a weak spot with those two items.

Yeah, its not using oil now, but if I had the HG done, I would definitely want to do the valve seals, etc once in there. 2003 is a long time to have a leak... if I knew mine would be OK 5-6 years like this by only adding some coolant every once in awhile, I would not fret over it and maybe have it replaced in a couple of years. I guess I will wait and see. Thanks.

workerunit · #18 10-25-2009, 11:56 PM

Well I can see that both of your transmission cooler hoses are leaking transmission fluid, that is a easy, do it yourself repair and parts cost less than $100.00 tops with shipping. As far as a green coolant leak on the right[passenger] side of the engine , could be a head gasket, but likely you would not see green coolant dripping off the FRONT of the oil pan. Seems to me a coolant leak at the head gasket would leak down either side of the block and migrate towards the rear of the engine due to windage.
Before you get all concerned about your headgasket, CONFIRM that it is indeed leaking, make sure that you are not seeing a waterpump or more likely a heater hose/pipe leak. Do not the M103's have a heater hose pipe coming out of the water pump and traversing to the right side of the engine under the distributor cap, right in front of the timing cover? I know my 190E 2.6 does. If I was seeing green coolant dripping off of the FRONT of my oil pan, I would look closely at that pipe and hose to make sure that it was not cracked and leaking, could be something as simple as a loose hose clamp, or that coolant pipe cracked at its mounting tab on the lower timing cover.

mbzman · #19 10-26-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86560SEL

Yeah, its not using oil now, but if I had the HG done, I would definitely want to do the valve seals, etc once in there. 2003 is a long time to have a leak... if I knew mine would be OK 5-6 years like this by only adding some coolant every once in awhile, I would not fret over it and maybe have it replaced in a couple of years. I guess I will wait and see. Thanks.

I should add that it was the previous owner that decided to drive it in this condition. She didn't put very many miles on the car between the time the leak appeared and the time I bought it at the end of 2008. I don't think the dealership was doing her any favours so she decided to just delay...

ps2cho · #20 10-26-2009, 01:05 AM

You should be able to do the head gasket relatively easy yourself if the valve guides are not burning any oil. You don't have to touch anything on the fuel side. Just unbolt @ the intake manifold, unbolt exhaust pipes, remove rotor, cap and ignition wires and pull her out!

Don't pay any more than $1300 for a head gasket change at an indy. The head gasket set is less than $100 and there is no way it takes 12 hours of labor. I did it in less than 6 hours and I have never removed a head before. Rebuild took me about 9 hours but I had to reassemble the head and do the water pump which required a bunch of other stuff to come off.

long-gone · #21 10-26-2009, 01:23 AM

Outofspec:
quote; "Once off I cleaned the surface of the head and block with a pneumatic die grinder and those 3M 3” disk pads that screw lock into place."

Not to change the subject here, or start the age-old debate on such, but in my opinion, I would never clean an aluminum head surface with a power tool and an abrasive pad of any kind. Reading of the leak you mentioned after your head gasket replacement, the first thing that crossed my mind was how you might have cleaned the head. Next post you mention using this method on the head (probably not a problem on the iron block). Of course, it may or may not be the reason for the leak but curious to consider.

86560SEL: on a similar note, using the green coolant isn't considered the best practice on Mercedes' (or most cars with aluminum/alloy parts in contact with coolant). There are many who would expect that the use of the wrong coolant could be corrosive or antagonistic to the sensitive metals in the system and result in such leaks. MB coolant or Zerex G-05 are the standard recommended coolants to use.

86560SEL · #22 10-26-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by long-gone

Outofspec:

86560SEL: on a similar note, using the green coolant isn't considered the best practice on Mercedes' (or most cars with aluminum/alloy parts in contact with coolant). There are many who would expect that the use of the wrong coolant could be corrosive or antagonistic to the sensitive metals in the system and result in such leaks. MB coolant or Zerex G-05 are the standard recommended coolants to use.

lol. I know. I have been meaning to change it.... too little time and money. Poor excuses I know.

iwrock · #23 10-26-2009, 05:06 AM

Ehhh, I would not worry about the oil leak. As long as you keep an eye on the level, you will be fine. My 300TE leaks where the upper timing chain cover meets the lower timing chain cover. Its not too bad of a leak, but you can definitely see the oil leak there.

Your water pump could also be starting to leak a little. Would not hurt to clean up the engine bay, and identify the leak.

A friends got well over 275k on a 190E 2.6, and he leaks transmission fluid, oil, and until recently, coolant. The water pump had a slow leak when the engine was at operating temperature, but wasn't too bad of a leak to justify replacing the pump. He recently replaced the water pump, and his coolant does not disappear anymore.

Personally, I would just keep an eye on the level of the vital fluids, and keep them topped off. Paul S is right, in that you could drive the car for the next 10 years, and not have any problems.

Ferdman · #24 10-26-2009, 07:13 AM

86560SEL, as mentioned several times already take the time to thoroughly clean the engine and pinpoint the leak source. If you're still unable to detemine exactly what is leaking consider taking your car to a local, reputable indie for a professional diagnosis. Our local indie swears that the only MB automobiles that don't leak are the ones that aren't driven ... certainly that's an exaggeration. You may very well drive the car as-is for years provided you regularly check the fluid levels. Do change the coolant ASAP ... the green coolant is a no-no.

Remember to have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) done by a MB-trained tech before buying any MB automobile in the future. That way you will find out about existing problems and the cost to repair. You will read many times on this forum "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap MB automobile".

outofspec · #25 10-26-2009, 03:48 PM

[QUOTE=long-gone;2324327]Outofspec:
quote; "Once off I cleaned the surface of the head and block with a pneumatic die grinder and those 3M 3” disk pads that screw lock into place."

Not to change the subject here, or start the age-old debate on such, but in my opinion, I would never clean an aluminum head surface with a power tool and an abrasive pad of any kind. Reading of the leak you mentioned after your head gasket replacement, the first thing that crossed my mind was how you might have cleaned the head. Next post you mention using this method on the head (probably not a problem on the iron block). Of course, it may or may not be the reason for the leak but curious to consider.

I can understand your concern here Long gone. I used the least most aggresive 3M pad available for the head and was very aware of the pressure and speed on the air tool while removing the old gasket reminents. I feel it's important to get both mating surfaces clean as a whistle before placing any new gasket. The leak that I mentioned after the work was done did not occur on the head gasket, but the new water pump where it meets the block. I actually got the large rubber "O" ring pinched and not seated properly. The solution was to anchore the new "O" ring to the back of the new pump with a little sealer that I used on the upper timing chain cover. This held it in place for installation and made certain it was in straight. 450 miles and counting on the new head gasket. No leaks!

86560SEL · #26 10-26-2009, 09:26 PM

Thanks. Well, if it does turn out to be the HG, I will probably try to turn it over to someone that can fix it themselves and enjoy for 15 more years.

I am not a DIY'er and cant afford a big repair. Hopefully even if it is the HG, it will last alot longer.

tinypanzer · #27 10-27-2009, 07:05 PM

Before you decide it's the head gasket, do yourself a favor and clean everything up. Also, you're likely to need to re-seal the front top timing cover. These love to leak oil.

The coolant could also be leaking from the various hoses and connections and dripping all over the place. The fan can also spread fluids around. That's why cleaning up is so important for finding a leak.

Check the O-ring going to the heater tube on the water pump. It can leak.

Did I hear you say you have GREEN antifreeze in there? Big no-no. Switch to the MB stuff or you'll regret it eventually.

Check those transmission cooler hoses, they looked a bit weepy.

86560SEL · #28 10-27-2009, 09:51 PM

Thanks. Yeah, I am going to try to clean it up, but it will probably be first of next week... full plate. Work everyday until Tuesday... church Wednesday night, washing/waxing a friends car Thursday night, Halloween deal at church Friday night, cruise-in (last one of the year) on Saturday night, so MAYBE Sunday night or Monday night at the latest. I will also get some pics of the engine from the upside. Seems like its originating from the upper area, below the valve cover gasket, but I know there is no way to tell until I get it cleaned up good.

Yeah, its got green coolant... it was in there when I bought it. Apparently people like to use green coolant in these cars. I may even post some photos later this evening of what the upperside looks like so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinypanzer

Before you decide it's the head gasket, do yourself a favor and clean everything up. Also, you're likely to need to re-seal the front top timing cover. These love to leak oil.

The coolant could also be leaking from the various hoses and connections and dripping all over the place. The fan can also spread fluids around. That's why cleaning up is so important for finding a leak.

Check the O-ring going to the heater tube on the water pump. It can leak.

Did I hear you say you have GREEN antifreeze in there? Big no-no. Switch to the MB stuff or you'll regret it eventually.

Check those transmission cooler hoses, they looked a bit weepy.

86560SEL · #29 11-03-2009, 06:33 PM

OK... well I took more photos of where I think its leaking, but for some reason my computer is being a PITB and not wanting to read the SD card... another thing bites the dust so to speak.

Anyway, I noticed some coolant on the upper part of the water pump. I think its leaking at the pump, but wondering if the head gasket could also be seeping? I did take more photos after cleaning it up and will post when I get this thing working.

I will let it all dry good and drive it once and see if I can see more coolant and where its coming from.

86560SEL · #30 11-03-2009, 10:54 PM

Very well. I got the photos to download into my computer... here goes.

This was before the cleaning... the ones I posted before were not of inside the engine bay...

It appears to be that there is some sealant/glue there and it looks like it has had some work there before???? I dont know...

ut oh... here is coolant! I wonder if this is the problem and if its just that hose and not the head gasket...

that housing appears rusty...

after the cleaning... I guess tomorrow I can check and see where its leaking...

as you can see, it has Mercedes hoses and clamps... I am sure there is no way they are original however...

this is how low the coolant is... I have not added any in at least 8 months! I think I topped it off in February, when it was low and my low coolant light was illuminating.

More info tomorrow