I felt similarly about the 124 at it's introduction, but once I sat in the drivers seat I was impressed. All the plasticy stuff makes trim items MUCH more difficult to service than the 123 cars.

Since I do all my own work, I find the 123 cars superior to the 124 when the wrenches have to come out. Sitting in the drivers seat is another story. Driving a 124 is a vastly more satisfying experience than driving a 123.

Here's the thing - MB's design to production cycle for a new vehicle is about 7 years or so. This refers to the time that transpires from a blank sheet of paper to a car that is rolling off the production line. Given this length of time, and given that the "merger" took place in 1998, it is *impossible* for any car introduced and in the showroom by 1998 to have any DCX influence.

When Daimler bought Chrysler, it was never to harness Chrysler's engineering potential. It was never to ride the coattails of Chrysler's sterling retuptation for quality or value. It wasn't even for their distribution network (which is why Fiat bought them). It was to extend the life of obsolete tooling and production that MB had finished with. W210 architecture shows up in the 300E and Charger after it goes out of production in Germany, along with 722.6 transmissions when they start moving towards the end of their life cycles. The entire first generation SLK chassis gets a new lease on life under the body of a Chrysler Crossfire (manufactured in Austria by Magna Steyr). MB diesel engines show up in Jeep products prior to the introduction of BlueTec. The Dodge Sprinter van shows up with only the badges changed from MB product. MB's last generation hand-me-downs were going to be better than anything Chrysler could engineer at the time - it was a way to ammortize the cost on engineering for MB over a longer amount of time.

The fact that MB quality took a dive at about the same time of the merger was a coincidence that had nothing to do with the merger. It had more to do with a change in design and engineering philosophy at MB.

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Jonathan

2011 Mazda2
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1994 C280 (retired)

This is far closer to the truth than just about anything else said here. Not discounting it, mind you, just saying that some changes are wrought by external influences.

Infiniti and Acura arrived in 1987. Their products, while worthwhile didn't quite compete with the German luxury marques. The arrival of the Lexus LS400 is what signalled a wholesale shift in the mindset of the American luxury car buyer.

Not the lesser ES250, but the LS400. To be honest, the car was just about equal with the Mercedes and BMW competition, while quieter, cheaper, more fuel efficient and better appointed. This called into question the ethos of luxury cars and their pricing.

But it wasn't just the car, it was also the dealership experience; complimentary coffee and pastries, car wash with all servicing, loaner car for all repairs, complimentary shuttle for servicing etc etc etc. At a time when Mercedes dealer experience was insular at best, if not insulting. Witness the handling of the wiring harness fiasco on the W124 vs Lexus recalling 8000 cars based on 2 complaints just after the cars debut.

You guys should really read the wikipedia page on the LS400.

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'O=00=O'
bmw 2002.
long live the legend

Yeah Lexus, I remember it well, hearing about it from my brother constantly, ... what a huge success it was to bring a Toyota Senator over from Japan, put an L on the hood, and sell it to all of the quick-fix generation that didn't want to research past the commercials and brochure.

Yes it had better fit and finish, quieter? Probably, I wasn't too impressed with my Father's SC400 though, felt like a gold-encrusted Supra and was a crappy drive at speed (although great around town and in mall parking lots).

What Lexus did was marketing, started with a market (target buyer will make $xx/year, will pay $yy, expects zz from 0-60, expects these features, has this many children, is married or ??, etc., etc.) and built a car around that market / target buyer. Did it well, I know the guys who did all of that work, and didn't spend an extra nickle on anything that wouldn't show and improve its perceived value.

A good car for sure, hit right in the Audi market and well below Mercedes prices which was part of Mercedes' change from the only major automaker to price their cars using a cost-plus-margin formula to a market-driven pricing formula, and drove Mercedes pricing down. This forced Mercedes to do the same thing: eliminate the things that made a Mercedes a Mercedes, unless the buyer would see it and perceive it as an added value. Things like forged control arms? Not seen, stamped steel are cheaper, ... etc.

So did the Lexus cars change the automotive landscape and Mercedes-Benz's direction? No, the generation of buyers, who want to sign and drive, trade frequently, and rely on J.D. Powers' "initial quality survey" results to tell them if a car is quality or not (a survey sent to new-car buyers within their first 90-days' ownership to gauge quality) which indicated only whether the customer was exited about their car new, not whether it actually lasted past 90 days and went the distance without serious problems.

Mercedes didn't really let us down on the wiring issues, MBUSA did. They made the decisions whether to cover with a warranty or good-will campaign, not Mercedes-Benz in Germany. I had similar issues with VWUS and Audi in the early-mid '80s, customer service basically sucked, ... until the Japanese companies decided to kill them with kindness (to their customers) and put service first. That also changed the way that Detroit did business, ... a little.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Well said babymog, neanderthal, lkchris and others. Unquestionably, upscale Japanese brands threw the traditional luxury car market into a tailspin with both product and customer service. But surely, changing consumer outlooks about what constitutes "luxury" in an automobile have played a significant role too. The instant gratification, short attention span, gotta-have-the-latest-electronic-gadget generation didn't respond well to the notion that quality is in the build, not in what you tack on to make the driving experience seem as much as possible like a home theater. And, as already mentioned, these buyers are on a replacement cycle having nothing to do with the automobile, but only when the latest generation of electronic toy gets added to the new models. That's about every couple of years. Design and build quality won't ever be an issue for them, and so, customer preference will inevitably drive the build decisions of the manufacturers, MBz included. That's not a bad thing; just a commentary on how we got where we are, and why some of us hang onto our 22 year old 124s, even when they don't have CD players.

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1988 California version 260E (W124)
Anthracite Grey/Palomino
Owned since new and still going strong and smooth
MBCA member

Past Mercedes-Benz:
1986 190E Baby Benz
1967 230 Inherited from mom when she downsized
1959 220S Introduced me to the joys of keepin' 'em goin'

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world--those who understand binary and those who don't

CD player ??? what about elementary cupholders?

If you need cupholders, ... you're not driving fast enough.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

The top three reasons I own a 124C.

3. Incredibly stylish for it's age (1988) Still a head turner.

2. It'll get up and go all day long, with ease and comfort and as quickly as you want to get there.

1. This: R.I.P my beloved 300CE

And long live the Mercedes 126.

It is against the law to drink any beverage while driving in Germany. That explains their long delay for the addition of cupholders.

I was on my way from Eindhoven, Netherlands to Hamburg, Germany. Just over the border into Germany I stopped at a fuel stop convenience store and bought a drink of some kind, I don't remember exactly what it was. I took it to the car to drink before I got on the Autobahn to let it rip. Everyone who saw me step out the door with that drink, eyeballed me hard. It was as if I had just robbed the place.

Germans spend more hours and almost as much money to get a drivers license in Germany than we do to get a PILOTS license here in the US. They are taught to pay attention to their driving. They don't drink coffee when they drive. They don't eat a sandwich when they drive. They're not even allowed to have a child under 10 years old in the front seat when they drive. That's why they have no speed limits on their Autobahn system, but have fewer fatalities per mile driven than any other highway system in the world.

Agree 100% - We should have car that require attention and knowledge of what are you doing. Last S class(W126) with 5 speed manual is 1984, E (W124) class is from 1988.

Well the last year for a manual C Class was 2001 or maybe the following year as well. I was fortunate to drive one of those and also to still have my five speed manual 1988 300E. These are the last years for manual transmissions in the US. When I go to Europe I lust after all the great MB's over there with manual transmissions.

Shows you how lazy American drivers have gotten. I personally have NO vehicles with automatic transmissions except my wife has an automatic transmissioned Mini Cooper.

I have a pickup, a Vette, my 300E and a new Mustang GT, all with manuals. I have no interest in owning and driving automatic transmisssion vehicles. I don't like driving them. I don't like maintaining them. I don't like repairing them.

Both of my kids are grown and drive manuals. They get lots of comments from friends asking where they learned. I made a point of teaching them to drive a manual transmission car and wouldn't allow them to drive an automatic until they learned in a stick first.

My daughter learned to drive in a stick-shift car, ... the same quattro that brought her home from the hospital when it was new. It also taught her her first phrase: BBS wheel. She learned to love driving in that car, taught her how to drift a turn in it too.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

No, wish I did, I should snip that quote. I agree with what he said about the W124s quality and design standards. To be honest my W124 is older than I am, I am however currently working on becoming an engineer so we'll see what the world holds once I finish school.

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68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i

Might want to fact-check a bit.

Gilly

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