anyone tried Enviro-safe refrigerant in a 126? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

WDBCB20 · #1 05-02-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

alabbasi Post#1 ES-12a is propane. Actually it is not. It is a blend of hydrocarbons I've used it on a couple of cars and it's hit and miss. "It" apparently being the refrigerant.

On my old 1991 560SEL, it worked well. On my 88 560SEC, it's hit and miss (past 90 degrees it sucks). "It" apparently being the refrigerant.
On my latest 560SEC purchase, which was converted to R134, it blew cool but not cold. I sucked it out and installed ES-12a, it was not cold at all. So I sucked it out and put R12 in and it blew cold. "It" apparently being the refrigerant.

So on this one car which I suspect has a marginally working A/C system
R134 is cool
ES-12a is ineffective
R12 is cold.

I just charged a buddy's 300SD this weekend and it worked quite well. "It" being the refrigerant? and if so which one?

alabbasi Post#2 I charged all the cars and all the gases the same way by pulling a vac for at least 40 mins and then charging. Wherewith consistently employing a methodology expressly contraindicated by the hydrocarbon refrigerant manufacturer for their product. I get consistent results with R12 but not with ES-12a which is why I say it's hit and miss. "It" apparently being the refrigerant.

Being that it's cheap, it's worth trying. "It" apparently being the refrigerant.
But from my findings, it does not work as well as R12 in all applications and if you're going to spend any money on the a/c system, then it may be worthwhile converting to R134. The consensus on (which has been arrived at by considerable waste of time and money) use of R134 in the old MB R12 systems for which they were not designed is immediate or rapid deterioration to sub par cooling ending in shortened life of the system.

alabbasi Post#3 As I said, I think it depends on the system more then the gas. Actually, this is the first time you say this. In the previous posts as revealed above you appear to indict the refrigerant, not the system, and the take away the reader is left with is that ES-12a is not recommended which you then somewhat reinforce once again here: On marginal systems it does not seem to work well , whereas R12 makes up for the inefficiencies. I don't think this is unusual, some cars which are converted to R134 which worked really well and others that did not. My old 6.9 was like that. It would freeze you out.

I'd just want to join Brian Carlton in urging more care and accuracy in our written contributions to the site which, many of us access to help us make repair and purchase (time and $)decisions. Refrigeration especially is rife with so many variables and unless you are (strictly) controlling for all of them you're merely left with anecdote the plural of which does not make data.

bcolins · #2 05-02-2012, 11:43 AM

Wondering if those who got poor results are using the standard ES-12a AND Pulling a deep vacuum. Envirosafe states clearly, that with the non-industrial ES-12a with dye, that little or no vacuum should be pulled. Pulling a vacuum with the non-industrial ES-12a will make it ineffective. (According to Zach at Enviro-safe.

JamesDean · #3 05-02-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcolins

Wondering if those who got poor results are using the standard ES-12a AND Pulling a deep vacuum. Envirosafe states clearly, that with the non-industrial ES-12a with dye, that little or no vacuum should be pulled. Pulling a vacuum with the non-industrial ES-12a will make it ineffective. (According to Zach at Enviro-safe.

Whenever I used the ES-12A stuff I never pulled a vacuum.

My first "experiment" was on my 190E where the R12 leaked out less than a year after it was charged (2006, leaked out in early 2007).

After that I had my shop charge it with Freeze12 which also leaked out about a year later.

Finally I said the hell with it and that I'd give up. I didnt have money at the time to re-build the a/c system. I came across ES-12A and at the time it was $40. I said what the hell, we'll see what happens.

I bought a set of manifold gauges to attempt a more proper charge. I figured they'd come in handy on any of the other MB's here too. I charged it up and been working ever since.

My center vents output a nice temperature in the high 30's. Its refreshingly cold.

Hit Man X · #4 05-02-2012, 07:08 PM

Just use R12, it is about $10/lb if you know how to shop... cheaper than the street price or 134A which is $10/12oz.

alabbasi · #5 05-02-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDBCB20

bla bla bla

Read it a couple of times, i'm sure it will make sense to you eventually. If not, oh well.

bcolins · #6 05-02-2012, 12:44 PM

Trying to make sense of the quote posted by WDBCB20.

after reading it a few times,....I am wondering if the remarks in bold are added to the original comments,......or were they part of the original quote?

JamesDean · #7 05-02-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcolins

Trying to make sense of the quote posted by WDBCB20.

after reading it a few times,....I am wondering if the remarks in bold are added to the original comments,......or were they part of the original quote?

It appears that they were added to the original posts. They are WDB's remarks on alabassi's statements.

alabbasi · #8 05-02-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcolins

Trying to make sense of the quote posted by WDBCB20.

after reading it a few times,....I am wondering if the remarks in bold are added to the original comments,......or were they part of the original quote?

Yep, smart arse responses such as the one posted contribute nothing to the conversation. Unfortunately, every now and then, trolls like him venture out of the open discussion forum and pollute the technical sections. It really shouldn't be tolerated.

RANDY P · #9 05-02-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Yep, smart arse responses such as the one posted contribute nothing to the conversation. Unfortunately, every now and then, trolls like him venture out of the open discussion forum and pollute the technical sections. It really shouldn't be tolerated.

I agree. What the heck is it with this place- everyone chiming in to try to one-up someone by trying to sound smart and "technical"?

Happens a lot in this forum. I once had a dork in the vintage section get mad at me for suggesting to chain a coil to avoid it from flying out during rear suspension disassembly. Ya, know, so the operator doesn't get killed by a flying spring?

His excuse? - That I've never worked on a Wxxx EDIT: it was a W111

PS - armchair wrenches: You have NO RIGHT to comment if you've never been dirty working on a car. Yes, regurgitation of popular internet mythology only read and not experienced should not be allowed. Grammar Nazis fall into this same category.