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  #1  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:20 AM
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anyone tried Enviro-safe refrigerant in a 126?

Just installed a new R134 specific expansion valve, and new (rebuilt) A6 compressor in my 85 380SE. Have prevously flushed the entire system, and will be installing a new drier prior to vacuuming the system down. Have added the required PAG 150 that the A6 calls for with R134A,.....was just checking out Enviro-Safe's refrigerant,.....sounds great,....found one video on Youtube with a guy having just installed it in his 86 Monte Carlo,...and he mentions that his evaporator is icing up at idle.

Wondering if anyone has tried this in a 126 chassis car. They claim its 32% more efficient than even R12!

Anyone tried it?

Brian in Austin


Last edited by bcolins; 04-30-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:11 PM
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I run the ES stuff in my 190E. I was getting high 30's at my center vent. I'm pretty pleased with its performance.

I've got R12 in my 420SEL and it only gets maybe into the low 50's on a good day.

I gave it a try on the 190E because I knew I had a small leak that would eventually empty the system as it had in the past. It was getting rather hot in the summer and I figured what the hell, its pretty cheap.

I'd already paid for R12 once when I first got the car and again when they put a dye in to find the leak. The leak was never found so its possible that its more near the evaporator.

I threw the ES stuff in and its still holding a charge a year later and running nice and cold...

You'll hear a lot of people speak against stuff like ES-12 because its a butane/propane/isobutane type fluid and as such is flamable. However I don't think its flashpoint is much different than R134A.

Freeze-12 is another commonly used refrigerant. I tried this as well, its cooling performance was poor compared to the ES-12 stuff. F-12 is 134A based.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:11 PM
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I had success with Envirosafe in a W124 with a weak compressor. It would barely cool with r134 and with ES it work well enough that I never replaced the compressor.
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
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I put it in a 126 that has R-12 in it. That was 2 years ago and it has been marvelous ever since. I still have about 9 bottles left. I even put a can in a 124 Diesel I had and it worked perfectly.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:53 PM
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ES-12a is propane. I've used it on a couple of cars and it's hit and miss.

On my old 1991 560SEL, it worked well. On my 88 560SEC, it's hit and miss (past 90 degrees it sucks).
On my latest 560SEC purchase, which was converted to R134, it blew cool but not cold. I sucked it out and installed ES-12a, it was not cold at all. So I sucked it out and put R12 in and it blew cold.

So on this one car which I suspect has a marginally working A/C system
R134 is cool
ES-12a is ineffective
R12 is cold.

I just charged a buddy's 300SD this weekend and it worked quite well.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:27 AM
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wondering if you pulled too much vacuum before charging the system. The guy I spoke to today stated that about -5 was optimum.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:29 AM
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I charged all the cars and all the gases the same way by pulling a vac for at least 40 mins and then charging. I get consistent results with R12 but not with ES-12a which is why I say it's hit and miss.

Being that it's cheap, it's worth trying. But from my findings, it does not work as well as R12 in all applications and if you're going to spend any money on the a/c system, then it may be worthwhile converting to R134.
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Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:43 AM
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Yeah, The customer service rep I spoke with yesterday stressed that only a medium or even NO vacuum whas better than a deep vacuum,....I would call ES about this.
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
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I've never heard of "too much vacuum" before charging. "No vacuum" is downright silly.

I think HC refrigerants (propane-butane mix) are a good idea. But I wouldn't listen to the rep any further than that.
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:42 AM
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Here is a quote from Auto Refrigerants.com (and what I was told yesterday). This regarding their colder industrial variant,.....I'll check with ES to see if it applies to the Regular ES-12a

Introducing our newer "Industrial 12a" in the cans. (pictured here) The picture shows the original 8 oz. cans but these are the new 6 oz. cans. Each 6 oz.can of it is equivalent to 18 oz./Freon or 16 oz./134a. It is even colder than the regular ES-12a! It is a slightly higher pressure product and may be charged into a medium vac, a shallow vac or even zero vac. That makes it virtually mistake-proof, unless you over-charge the system. If you think the regular formula is cold (and it most certainly is), this Industrial 12a will amaze and delight.
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  #11  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcolins View Post
Yeah, The customer service rep I spoke with yesterday stressed that only a medium or even NO vacuum whas better than a deep vacuum,....I would call ES about this.
I tried that once before (I was foolish enough to buy the huge jug) and did not get any better results.

As I said, I think it depends on the system more then the gas. On marginal systems it does not seem to work well , whereas R12 makes up for the inefficiencies. I don't think this is unusual, some cars which are converted to R134 which worked really well and others that did not. My old 6.9 was like that. It would freeze you out.
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
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From Enviro-safes web site

Here's cut and paste from Enviro-safes web site. I also just called ES and talked with Zach in customer service. He stated that it is best NOT to pull a vacuum with the regular ES-12a with dye, and further, that the colder industrial product will work with or without pulling a vacuum. Moisture and air apparently are not issues when using this product.

Zach also mentioned that this is NOT a propane or butane product. (but is a Hydrocarbon) and that in 15 years of selling it, they have never had an incident of a fire or explosion. (they have heard the rumors)

From the Enviro Safe Web site: (Link: http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/173/t/r134a-replacement-refrigerant-with-dye-can/details.asp)


Equivalent Weight Installation Chart

Download Chart (266 KB, PDF)


For best results, do NOT pull a vacuum on A/C system. (I added the orange color to highlight this statement)

(prices do not reflect shipping charges)

QUANTITY DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE!

Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant with Dye is made of only the Most Pure, Quality, Refined ingredients available today.

Because Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant with Dye is so efficient, you use UP TO 60% LESS! Please see EQUIVALENCIES below.

Each ounce of Enviro-Safe R134a Replacement Refrigerant with Dye is equivalent to 2.6 ounces of R134a and 3 ounces of R12.

Last edited by bcolins; 05-01-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcolins View Post
[B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Zach also mentioned that this is NOT a propane or butane product. (but is a Hydrocarbon) and that in 15 years of selling it, they have never had an incident of a fire or explosion. (they have heard the rumors)

Funny that? my ES-12a Cylinder has a sticker on the top saying "liquified petroleum gas" and the highly flammable symbol.

Let's not fool ourselves, it is what it is.
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Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
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http://www.w108.org

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  #14  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alabbasi View Post
Funny that? my ES-12a Cylinder has a sticker on the top saying "liquified petroleum gas" and the highly flammable symbol.

Let's not fool ourselves, it is what it is.
Agreed it is a flammable.

According to MSDS, ES-12A, the auto-ignition point is 1246 F. Likewise R134A is 1370F.

If you're engine bay, engine, or car are near 1250F I'd say you have some more pressing issues to deal with.
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:22 PM
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It's propane, a spark will ignite it in the same way that a spark will fire up my grill. But really, i'm not interested in the conversation if it's going this direction.

It's been talked to death in plenty of threads already.

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Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
http://www.stroke8.org

http://www.w108.org

Join the Mercedes W108 group
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My 280SL restoration

http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/a...0959.thumb.jpg
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