Failed dreaded smog w euro - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

CamelotShadow · #16 06-20-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner

When you start cold how does it run? Do you get a fast idle for a minute or so while it warms up? It should slow to normal within a few minutes. Does it run smooth then act roughly after it is warm? If so then you have a lean fuel condition. That would point to a vacuum leak. I would be sure all vacuum hoses are good before even looking at the Cat.

Runs strong on start at higher rpm as it has a wur & its a air controlled idle. Runs first at 1200 to 1500 rpm will then will settle down to 750 in about 5 minutes. Car idles 750 to 600rpm (with AC) in drive

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It looks like previous years you were very close to a fail. One you were at the limit exactly on HC. That leads me to believe this issue has been going on for a while. You just noticed now because it got worse. Driving it that way would do the Cat in. It is possible your Cat has been on the way out for a while causing the high readings. It is also possible that driving the car with it not running well killed the Cat. If it is the latter you need to address both issues. If you get a new cat and it still runs funny it wont last long.

2009 high NO fail was brought down alot by new oxygen senser. tempted just to get a new one to pass it & then address the other issues.
still the failing makes me eligible to get a new cat for free so maybe I should just do that too.

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It looks to me like you have a lean mixture. Low CO and high HC points to a lean fuel ratio.

It was leaned in 2009 to pass smog & was left that way by advise of MB motors

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That metal hose is a heat riser. It should connect to the bottom of the air cleaner. It looks broken. That wont cause emission trouble. Its part of the warmup cycle and opens a valve on the air cleaner for fresh air I believe. See if you can find where it goes under the air cleaner. You can get a new riser easily from a hardware store. It looks like foil right. My old Nissan had its heat riser off for years. I really doubt that is your issue, but it could cause a fail for the visual inspection part of the smog test.

Its not foil its a solid metal corrugated tubing of approx 1 inch diameter. There are 3 closed off opening on back of air cleaner so maybe it went in one of those. The hose is coming up from some thing underneath but I can't see where it originates. Possibl part of car before it was converted to US? I

CamelotShadow · #17 06-20-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Sounds like your smog guy may have accidentally dislodged a vacuum hose or something under the hood. Get in there and look. Post pics if you can. That will get you back to your original problem of not passing smog. The high NO points to an EGR problem. Maybe not opening, not opening enough, or the passages are too clogged. All three are fairly likely on a 30 year old car.

EGR was checke & is working ok

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The high HC leads me to believe your fuel mixture is too rich. I'm not very familiar with the type of fuel injection your car has, but there are several things generally that can go wrong to cause that issue. Aging O2 sensors will do it, but you have a newish one, so it's unlikely to be that. MAP and/or MAF sensor failing could also be a culprit, as could a bad coolant temp sensor telling the computer to run cold fuel enrichment after the engine is warm. Pull codes if you can. On an OBDII system, this would be stupid easy.

O senser did fix same problem in 2009 so maybe it needs replacing again?
It has been sugg that mix is too lean?

CamelotShadow · #18 06-20-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner

is well. You have to make sure everything is in working order. Tune up, plugs, rotor, wires. Check all vacuum hoses. It could be a combination of things. Also if the Cat. is coated with stuff on the inside sometimes running for a long time at high revolutions can clean it out. You would want to drive above 2500 RPM's as long as possible to heat it up and burn the stuff out.

Tune up, plugs, rotor, wires. Check all vacuum hoses. It could be a combination of things
Checked rotar & cap & they are clean. Wires are pretty new so should be fine.

Would be nice to see condition of plugs to see how they are firing. Will have to look into that

2500 is normal highway speed I can arrange for that if it would help.
I'd even try to run it in park if it won't hurt the engine...???
Is this a possibility?

CamelotShadow · #19 06-20-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAVA

At 192k miles, engine blow-by is probably the culprit.

I know cars. I know late model Mercedes vehicles, so Im guessing here...

1) 1983 with 190k miles - A lot of city miles - very worn car... - a lot of start stops...- if less then 5mile trips are made, it is hard on the CATS. The car has to come upto temperature-This is important in cold weather...

2) The engine blow-by is greater than a 190k mile highway driven car.

I'm assuming if my 96 S320 has a vacuum controlled EGR. Your 500SEC probably has a vacuumed controlled EGR too. If it is vacuum, you can test the whole Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) very easily... This method works on any make or model with vacuum controlled EGR valve.

1) disconnect the vacuum line at the EGR, and plug it with a pen cap

2) Attach several feet of vacuum line to the EGR valve(make sure the line fits snug on the nipple of the egr)

3) With the engine off, suck on the attached vacuum line, and you should feel and hear the EGR vacuum diaphragm actuate

4) Now with the engine on, and idling. If you suck on the line, the engine should slow down, hesitate, and possibly stall. If it does that, the WHOLE EGR system is WORKING!!
If it does not slow down, the EGR passages could be plugged. On most cars a steel pipe taps into the exhaust and channels it to the EGR valve and then channels it to the intake manifold to mix with the fresh intake air. In about 90% to 80% of cases the EGR passages plug up with carbon, next the vacuum to control the EGR valve is not present in about 10% of cases, and lastly the EGR valve fails(now the EGR could be gummed up to with carbon). The Mercedes cars are weird when it comes to the EGR passages. Some engines have the EGR steel pipe, and some have the passages through the engine block. If yours is on the engine block, it is hard to near impossible to unclog. If you have the metal pipe, the passages can be cleaned with a coat hanger on a cordless drill, so it tears-up the carbon, but does not damage the steel pipe- Very much like a kitchen drain clean-out is done.

5) now test the plugged vacuum line. Take the pen cap off. Put your finger on the vacuum line. You should feel little to no vacuum while idling, but while you rapidly accelerate to about 1200rpm and let go the throttle. The vacuum will be greater as the rpms rapidly drop. You may get vacuum when you rapidly accelerate. If this works, the EGR vacuum control is working okay. If this NOT present, you better chase this down as this may be plugged, or you may have a broken vacuum line

Thanks for the procedure but had the EGR tested by MB motors & they say its fine

I blocked the line to egr & hopefully have attached a tight enogh line to egr
I've got it up to operating temp. I held the line & blocked it so I did it wrong. I'll go back & try to see if its tight & what happens when I blow into it. I'll have to right this down its tricky.

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The CATS can be tested with a Infrared temperature gun, but this test can only help you with Hydrocarbons numbers. The NOx's are mostly fixed on the engine side.

1) Measure the inlet pipe going into the CAT(s) at about 6" to 10" before each CAT.

2) Measure the temperature on the cat, but measure it from the CAT not the heat shield.

3) Throttle your car to 1500rpm, and hold it for a minute. Measure the CAT's. What you are looking to see in temperature is the the actual cat should be several hundred degrees hotter than the inlet pipe. You will need a helper to hold the throttle. If you want to test this technique. Do a the test on any late model car to test the CAT temperature differential test. If the temperature is the same, than your CATs are probably toast

Could my mechanic do it. He has a heat gun he used to check radiator.
Still this is best done by an approved smaog repair station as I can get reimbursed for it. I'll have to ask them to check.

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A thing I would do before the CAT temperature test, or your next smog. I would clean your plugs with some fine sandpaper, yet providing they are not wet.. Next I would clean-up cap and rotor with sandpaper/file/ worn dremel bit on a Dremel. Borrow a dremel, or buy the cheapy $9.00 dollar one from Harbor Freight to clean-up the cap and rotor. Use the pink stones. Be careful when working the rotary tool as it can grind down your cap and rotor. You want the contact points on the cap and rotor to be shinny-It will improve the efficiency of your ignition components.

In some cities, one can find these gas stations that sell about 110 Octane racing gas. I remember when I lived in the Los Angeles area. I saw about six of them.

I'd even get some of the chemicals that help you pass the SMOG tests.

Hope this helps you as these are cheap fixes and test to help you. As the best thing to do, replace the CATS, but that is going to cost you.

Best of luck,

Martin

Rotary Tool Kit - 80 Piece Set

Will have to check into these
Thanks

CamelotShadow · #20 06-20-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner

When you start cold how does it run? Do you get a fast idle for a minute or so while it warms up? It should slow to normal within a few minutes. Does it run smooth then act roughly after it is warm? If so then you have a lean fuel condition. That would point to a vacuum leak. I would be sure all vacuum hoses are good before even looking at the Cat.

Yes it is hi at start up. It has a warm up regulator & a air controlled idle valve. It does come down after a while. I'll ahve to double check but I do know its rpms in drive stiing still are about 550 600? hard to tell exactly.

I'd like to check vac hoses but not sure if I can. I did change all the soft rubber connections on anything I could get access to.
Could not get to 2 or so behind the foel distributor on pass rear side.
Afraid to pull them off after breaking the 50C red plastic nipples off the valve behind the wur.
Enrique onstalled a new one.

Used to be hard to start when hot.
Enrique installed a new ccumlator so now it starts warm after a few revs.

It does run lumpy after got starts???

Quote:

It looks like previous years you were very close to a fail. One you were at the limit exactly on HC. That leads me to believe this issue has been going on for a while. You just noticed now because it got worse. Driving it that way would do the Cat in. It is possible your Cat has been on the way out for a while causing the high readings. It is also possible that driving the car with it not running well killed the Cat. If it is the latter you need to address both issues. If you get a new cat and it still runs funny it wont last long.
It looks to me like you have a lean mixture. Low CO and high HC points to a lean fuel ratio.
That metal hose is a heat riser. It should connect to the bottom of the air cleaner. It looks broken. That wont cause emission trouble. Its part of the warmup cycle and opens a valve on the air cleaner for fresh air I believe. See if you can find where it goes under the air cleaner. You can get a new riser easily from a hardware store. It looks like foil right. My old Nissan had its heat riser off for years. I really doubt that is your issue, but it could cause a fail for the visual inspection part of the smog test.

Its a 1 in solid coiled tubing. Would not call it foil & there is no open connection under the air cleaner that I ca remember but could re check. Don't think I would miss that

CamelotShadow · #21 06-20-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAVA

You are a lucky man if you can pass visual SMOG test with the metal pipe sticking out...

I'll just reply in order of your email.

The things you've done are fine-gas-30mile drive is fine, but I was told on my late model computer controlled cars to drive them 50 to 100miles. I think you should be okay. Also, you want to go to the smog test right away. Non of this sitting around for 15min to 30min before the actual test.
I'm sure 2500 is around 70 to 80mph with a transmission with overdrive, so on non overdrive transmission it will be around 50 to 60mph. With Mercedes Cars, the overdrive transmission did not arrive until the 722.5 transmission. Your transmission 722.3 or earlier unit. Once your CATS are gone. They are gone. On the RPM, you can run that RPM in park.

The cap and rotor. I would inspect it, and clean them with fine sand paper. Put dielectric grease on the boots of the spark plug wires. I HOPE YOU ARE DOING THE DIY ON THIS CAR BECAUSE PAYING FOR ALL SERVICES ON THESE CARS IS REALLY A LOSING PROPOSITION....

About the idle, it does not really matter, but like all cars of the eight's had a idle damper by a cushion diaphragm, or one controlled by vacuum that has step graduations.

Inspect your vacuum lines and soft rubber unions as they get soggy soft like a marsh mellow if my 1996 had some. YOUR 1983 WILL DEFINITELY HAVE SOME BAD ONES.

Have addressed rubber connections all I could get my hands on. Still couldn't get to the valve in the back that may be a temp control valve. Its the kind with plastic sticking up & they are easily broken when removing old rubber that has hardened on them

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The metal pipes, no clue... My guess is the EGR pipe, but it's location is odd. The pipe could be the heat riser from the exhaust to aid in the warming-up of the car. The pipe is generally about three to four inches in diameter, and it feeds into the air cleaner assembly.

Its 1 inch & ther are no open spots on air cleaner

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The other possibility's:

a) is the fresh air injection into the CATs to aid in emissions burning in the mornings-All modern cars have a electric pump that operates and has a valve to let the air pass. I do not know if such a system was uses in the 80's(definitely not on domestic cars of the time).

Not sure?

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b) crankcase gases pipe, but generally these gases are taken from the valve cover threw a one-way check valve called a PVC on the valve cover.

Not sure of this but looks like it had a pvc at one time

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c) the pipe is too wide for it to be charcoal gases recirculation ...

Charcoal cannister is on other side

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Do the EGR tests your self to qualify the EGR gas system, and to test the vacuum control to the EGR.

Best of luck,

Martin

Thanks

CamelotShadow · #22 06-20-2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Doner

You probably have one of these on your car. It is not mercedes original, but has to do with getting it BAR smog certified. There should be 2 wires going to the metering valve close to the K-jet fuel distributor. That valve should be making an intermittent buzzing noise. Also be sure all wires are properly connected to the little black box. It should be behind the passenger kick panel.

Will have to check...detailed pics need to be taken

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Did you check all the vacuum hoses going to the dash controls, and the transmission. How does the transmission shift. That could be an indicator. Do you hear any hissing noises anywhere. You can block off all of those areas to see if you get a change in performance.

transmisson shifts fine
How do you check vacumn hoses?

CamelotShadow · #23 06-20-2013, 10:48 PM

Should I pop in a bottle of techron?
I think thats mainly for fuel injectors?

A long series of highway trips to clear things out?

Run it for a tank?

24 x 15mpg = 360 miles
3 60 mile round trips?

Can't hurt.

OK take some good pics
Make alot of notes & try to check as much out as I can...

hookedon210s · #24 06-20-2013, 10:50 PM

These grey market cars used a couple of methods to meet the US emission standards. Either retarded ignition timing coupled with a great deal of exhaust gas recirculation and catalyst or a non-Bosch Lambda system that controls fuel mixture control by way of an oxygen sensor and frequency valve with catalyst. It looks like your conversion is by way of the latter. You write that your car is running lumpy and stalling periodically. You need to get to the bottom of this. First, you probably have old gasoline which needs to be consumed and the tank refilled with high quality gasoline. Idling in your driveway to burn this gas is not the answer. Add a bit of good gas, bottle of Techron and drive the car at highway speeds (you are looking for high load situations to really heat up the combustion chambers and cats). Provided you don't have a dead miss that dumps raw fuel into the cats, this will clean the combustion chambers, cats and the fuel system. If the engine performance is still lumpy get your mechanic to adjust the fuel mixture to its proper value. Removing and plugging the vacuum advance hose (discretely) will increase cat temp and also reduce NOx levels. Also, it sounds like your fuel mixture is very lean resulting in lean misfire which increases the HC level. Also, your test results show that the cats are not as hot as they need to be when the emission testing is being carried out since O2 is greater than zero. When your car is retested it needs to have the pee run out of it before the test and kept running at elevated rpm's with the AC on, etc. while waiting in line. High engine and cat temps are your friend. The corrugated metal pipe with no connection is probably a remnant of the US converter's air injection setup. The pipe may have been connected to an air pump that injected fresh air into the exhaust system (by way of the engine in the vicinity of the chain tensioner) during cold startup or injected fresh air into the exhaust by utilizing exhaust pulses and a check valve. This pipe should be connected to the air cleaner in such a way as to receive filtered air. If you get the engine to run smoothly without misfire you are halfway there.

CamelotShadow · #25 06-20-2013, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookedon210s

These grey market cars used a couple of methods to meet the US emission standards. Either retarded ignition timing coupled with a great deal of exhaust gas recirculation and catalyst or a non-Bosch Lambda system that controls fuel mixture control by way of an oxygen sensor and frequency valve with catalyst. It looks like your conversion is by way of the latter.

It does have an oxygen senser so if its failed as it did in 2009
it would mess up fuel mixture? the new o senser in 09 cut the NO to almost nil.

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You write that your car is running lumpy and stalling periodically. You need to get to the bottom of this. First, you probably have old gasoline which needs to be consumed and the tank refilled with high quality gasoline.

I bet this is part of the problem. It wasn't run much this winter & with a tank lasting for 300 miles it would take at least 6 months to use it so its likely that some og the gas in the tank is very old but diluted as I filled up twice in the last month... adding 16 gallons on May 22 so that was over half tank. I also filled up right before smog with 11.3 gallons so there should have not been too much old gas in the tank. I calculated mileage of 13.5 mpg at last fill up which isn't that bad considering my 4 cy Volvo only gets 16 mpg.

If I added 27 gallons in last month does that mean that its about .25 old gas. I can't find any receipts since winter so its possible there is still some winter gas in there???/ Its a 26 gal tank...

Do I have to add the techron & run it down to a few gallons? I have about 23 gallons in it now.

Could be part of the problem?

In retrospect it also was a mistake as I had to cut engine & restart & it does run a bit lumpy on hot starts so maybe a mistake but I read the tank needs to be full to help the cap test. It would seem I heated uo the engine with half old gas burning in the system.

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Idling in your driveway to burn this gas is not the answer. Add a bit of good gas, bottle of Techron and drive the car at highway speeds (you are looking for high load situations to really heat up the combustion chambers and cats). Provided you don't have a dead miss that dumps raw fuel into the cats, this will clean the combustion chambers, cats and the fuel system.

If the engine performance is still lumpy get your mechanic to adjust the fuel mixture to its proper value. Removing and plugging the vacuum advance hose (discretely) will increase cat temp and also reduce NOx levels. Also, it sounds like your fuel mixture is very lean resulting in lean misfire which increases the HC level. Also, your test results show that the cats are not as hot as they need to be when the emission testing is being carried out since O2 is greater than zero. When your car is retested it needs to have the pee run out of it before the test and kept running at elevated rpm's with the AC on, etc. while waiting in line. High engine and cat temps are your friend.

The engine does run a tad hot at 90 Celcius.
The stall was while running AC at hard turns as the Ac does lower the rpm to maybe 500. This smog guy was an idiot. He couldn't even open the hood after I showed him how. The gas fill up, then the short trip to the first smog whose machine was down sent me to this idiot so there was so much stop & start erattic trips then him letting it idle while he tried to open the hood & look around was excessive!!!
I may not go back to him.

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The corrugated metal pipe with no connection is probably a remnant of the US converter's air injection setup. The pipe may have been connected to an air pump that injected fresh air into the exhaust system (by way of the engine in the vicinity of the chain tensioner) during cold startup or injected fresh air into the exhaust by utilizing exhaust pulses and a check valve. This pipe should be connected to the air cleaner in such a way as to receive filtered air. If you get the engine to run smoothly without misfire you are halfway there.

I don't know if that pipe is getting dirty engine air. Maybe I should cap it & see what t hat does? they do use cold air injection to get the temp down to increase speed sometimes?

How can I tell ifs its misfiring? I sometimes feel its lumpy under the drivers seat area. I attribute it to the exhaust.

I asked Enrique to check if anything was loose under the car but he said it was fine.

He also never wants to adjust my fuel mixture. I have asked him but he doesn't seem to want to do it. I don't know why?

I was a bit miffed that he just increased the idle by ear turning the screw about 180 degrees counter clockwise.

He had shown me how to do it but I forgot which way increased it.
Maybe because its a air control idle it won't take a good precise setting dialed in with exact rpm.

I know he wants me to save money as I do but this is very important to get the basics of the car right.

Maybe I am confused?

I really would like to be able to use this car.

Thanks for the suggestions

CamelotShadow · #26 06-21-2013, 12:02 AM

So am I to try to deduce that getting the engined tuned should be first priority?
I will have to ask MB motors again.
No sense running a car for extended hours if its not running right!
Seems like common sense but he seemed to think it was running fine.

I've trusted Enrique but what should I do?
I have my Volvo serviced at British European motors. They specilize in
MB BMW Rolls royce, Jaguars etc.
I asked them way back about getting a MB 500 SEC & they said don't bother asking what it costs as they were the flagship of Mercedes & $ to fiix.

I asked here & Enqrique is known as one of the best.
I think he just doesn't want to spend too much time on my old euro.

What should I expect someone to do to set the fuel mixture?
They will likely want to put in fuel injectors or say it can't be tuned as its old///

I don't know what to do first.

C.Doner · #27 06-21-2013, 12:36 PM

Being a euro makes it a little more difficult. Many mechanics just dont know what to do. It is meant to be tuned without the cat.
There should be a adjuster on the fuel distributor. These are set at the factory so they should not need adjustment. I did adjust mine to ear at first myself. Then I used a old smog machine to dial the AF ratio.
You could find a smog place that does repairs as well an ask them to make adjustments. You will have to tell them what to do based on what we say here.
Enrique probably doesn't want to set the AF ratio because he does not have a exhaust analyzer. A low end smog/ repair shop will do as much for much less.
There is an small allen on top of the fuel dist. 3mm. While at idle Push it in and turn very slightly clockwise until it begins to stall. Then slowly go back until it smooths back out.
You can do this at home without the exhaust analyzer. It wont be exact though. I think if you get your idle figured out you can get it tuned enough to pass. I just looked over your 2013 test and you were only failing the 15 mph test by not much. The 25 mph test was a fail but very close. Only nox was high. That leads me to think its the CAT. My car had similar readings before I replaced it.
I would find a smog place that does repairs too. It has to be a non "smog only" station. I would tell them how to adjust the fuel mix . and ask them to check the Cat. They will use their analyzer to dial you in. It should not take more than a half hour to an hour. The trouble would be finding someone wiling to touch it.
Too bad your not up north. I could hook you up to my analyzer.
Dont loose hope thats a nice Euro. It is worth getting it running. It probably has aftermarket Cats already. New ones from an exhaust shop will run 300$ or so each.

MAVA · #28 06-21-2013, 01:36 PM

I feel your pain when you fail a SMOG. One feels powerless-You're saying what did i do to cause it!!!

I would get another Mechanic who troubleshoots, and is not a parts changer.

Find a great independent mechanic-their piles of them in Los Angeles Area. Post a request here, Benzworld, and look on yelp.

Easiest fix that will work is to replace the CATS, but it is a major expense, but It determines how much love you have for your car. I like my W140s(I want more!!), and I will do anything as I will never get rid of them-I will probably die with them! They are(to me) the best car on the planet, yet they are the nightmare of nightmares to a mechanic and owners, but I do all the work my self including painting and transmission repair.

The CAT test is a poor mans way of testing of the CATS, but it does work. The official way is to measure the gases coming in to the CATS, and out of the CATS. Since most cars today have dual oxygen sensors. The signals from the O2 sensors go into a breakout box and viewed on a oscilloscope to view the performance of mixture and the CATS.

Best of luck,

Martin

C.Doner · #29 06-21-2013, 02:15 PM

Ill what i said it a little more simple. This is what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would go down to a smogcheck / repair station and ask them remove the O2 sensor and probe the Exhaust gas analyzer in that hole Pre Cat. The fuel mixture should be adjusted from this point. Depress the allen screw adjuster on the fuel dist. and turn only a little at a time. You will feel the adjuster screw catch when depressed. You want to get it to about .5% CO pre Cat. the HC should be between 120 and 200 ppm. at idle. Then replace the sensor and test the exhaust from the tail pipe. If the Cat is working properly you will have little measurable emissions after the engine is tuned.
If the reading pre cat shows readings that are extremely high, for example, 700ppm HC that points to engine malfunction somewhere. Either AF mix is way off, A fuel injector is bad, or many other possible issues. Start with AF since that is easiest and has to be correct. If other areas are at fault they must be fixed then AF adjusted again. Its all kind of connected.
Remember that these engines were to be tuned in Germany without a Cat. so tuning pre Cat is best. If you call around to repair places ask if they have a Exhaust gas analyzer that they can use to help you fine tune your European muscle car. If you could find a person that would let you poke your head in to help it would be nice. You could try performance shops. You want someone who will do as you ask and not try to wring you for the diagnostic flat rate.

CamelotShadow · #30 06-21-2013, 07:48 PM

Ouch its Friday? I lost s day
Where the heck did Thursday go
Guess I spent hours yesterday going through all this & getting familar with the parts again.
Started reading my old thread when I found my car in 2007.
Got through 14 pages & it brought back how far we all have come.

Just a little hurdle/

Its Friday after 5 no time to do any long running of the car...or maybe late.

If I look at the distributor cap I should be able to see that & rotor.

I have dialetic grease I bought to put on boots. Does that also go on when I replace boots onto Dist cap?Enrique said get a waiver. Might be able to based on its a Euro.

I just can't but think back to 2009 where the new oxygen seser brought down the NO to almost none.
Maybe its gotten clogged in the last 4 years?Almost just want to tell Enriqure to pop in a new one & see if thats all it needs.

I'm in that zone where a smog repair will just want to throw in a cat without any testing of old.
I guess mine is old so it just might be the way to go?

I'll have to do some print outs of the various procedures.

I'm glad I know why it hard for Enrique to deal with some of these issues.

I'm waiting for approval for my Bar Smog Application before I spend the $.

I will have to go to a approved smog repair but I would get some reimbursement for smog rel repairs.

So should I put off adding techron now?
Could it make it harder to test?

I'd really like to try to do a long hard run & see what that does.

Thanks