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#16
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Don't be so surprised about the W123 - it was designed in the 70's with a balance of comfort and road handling (for its time). Remember that the car came originally with long-travel but soft suspension, this typically gives it the grip by way of having contact despite the body roll. Good choice on the Bilsteins - which type did you get?
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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7271/7...144c3fc1dc.jpg |
#17
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I installed the standard bilsteins. I just tonight set the timing to 2 degrees advanced versus 0 degrees, and it seems to run better. Just checked my first tank of gas and got a disappointing 15.8 mpg. I have a rural commute of 34 miles round trip. Thanks for the comments. I'm 62 years old and can remember the old suspensions. I'd still consider something radical like a 1" drop with some H&R springs but I don't see them for sale other than in the UK for $500. Again thanks for your comments. We have the same color too.
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#18
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Paul:
These cars handled acceptably when new, but had lots of body roll. I test-drove a couple of 123s when new, thinking that I'd like to buy one, walked away disappointed. To compare to other cars of its day I would say that its handling was similar to a Volvo GL sedan, a Volvo GLT would run circles around it. The 123 did have fairly neutral handling, predictable, but the body roll was IMO excessive. Still, once it settled into a turn it stuck pretty well. It was not a car to flog through a tight road course. The Audi cars of the time also cornered flatter, I bought a quattro instead (just introduced, about the same price, wish I kept it). If you wanted a Mercedes that would handle at the time you bought an AMG (Hammer!), at that time a separate company. My other reason for not liking the 123 at the time was the standard seats, I used to describe them as having one spring in the middle, and the entire seat cushion would tilt and rock beneath you as you drove. This also is normal.
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Gone to the dark side - Jeff |
#19
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The following two things can happen
1) All of the rubber parts on the suspension are rotted and dead 2) Cheap alignment places often do not get the job done correctly It is not uncommon to find W123s that handle like the "Good ship Venus" but look at the design => It is a nice design and can be made to make it feel a little bit more like you're driving on rails (not the sleepers). Saying that you'll not get the handling of a Mazda MX5...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#20
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The W123 (and W126 though less-so) are not exactly "track ready" cars in terms of their handling....its like driving a ship. Going between my W126 and my W201/203/210 is night and day in terms of handling. But the old ones have a road presence missing in the newer models.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#21
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Stretch: I agree totally. Will keep at it.
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#22
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The coupe is a bit lighter in the rear than a sedan I believe (I have owned a CD and lots of 240s and 300s). the 280 is heavier than any of the diesel engines I think so that might contribute to the rear acting loose. And you did not mention tires. Tires are a huge part of good handling.
Yeah, the 123 will lean a lot but it will corner. I autocrossed one for a year and a half. The handling should be pretty neutral and it will corner hard once you get it leaned over if shocks suspension and tires are sound. I had h and r lowering springs on my 280e euro that I autocrossed and it did not help all that much because the sway bars are pretty soft. Good luck finding the springs and the after market sway bars are not available that I ever found for a 123. Its not a sports car but it is a very competent family luxury sedan which will treat you right in an emergency situation.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#23
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I don't want you to get addicted to another hobby but have you tried a W124? The multi-link rear suspension was supposed to improve on the w123's semi-trailing sway arms. I've driven both but not aggressively. Both have long suspension travel, which is an MB trademark. But the W124's rear wheels do not turn in when cornering.
What tires are you using? That has an impact too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#24
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I have driven the W123 and I have a W124. Great on the highway, not so good on curvy back roads. The suspension is very good but the steering is not. It's heavy and slow and turn-in takes an big armful of wheel. I feel a faster ratio steering box with fewer turns lock-to-lock would make these cars perfect. Or even better, rack & pinion....
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1988 300E |
#25
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I replaced the front shocks on my 280ce with standard Bilstein's, rather disappointing, the Bilstein's on my 300cd are much stiffer, much more satisfying handling and smooth enough ride. There are stiffer Bilstein's available for these chassis. One other thought, find a W123 "Touring", i.e. "wagon" parts car, "re-purpose" the front swaybar, it's larger diameter...
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Dedicated to the preservation of antique Mercedes Benz's, one rusty ol' bucket of bolts at a time! |
#26
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Quote:
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#27
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When our 300D was much newer, it would drive as if on rails. Probably the best of the cars we owned at the time. But now, like Paul Lefebre, the car feels loose on the road and has harsh ride over bumps. I need to check the steering/suspension linkages for wear (Have probably been replaced just once in 440k km). I suspect new front sub-frame mounts would make a difference to ride. On my 350Sl they made a big difference. Need to check front wheel bearings for play too. All when I get time. But at least the old girl IS on the road and my daily driver of choice once again Finally Paul - Seems trivial, but check your tire pressures. Set them exactly according to the numbers on the fuel fill flap. Too high a pressure on my front tires makes the car feel like it is "floating"!
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Graham 85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5 |
#28
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Body roll makes me question the anti sway components. Are the links good?
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Current: 1985 300D aka Miss Margaret 1991 300SE aka Alarice 1995 SL320 aka Samantha 1997 K1500 Silverado Past: 1999 E300 ex-wife got it and let her son ruin it 1984 190 2.3 ex-wife got it and let her son destroy a great car 1985 300D (CA version) aka Maybelline lost to deer at high speed. 1981 300D aka Madeline (went to salvage at near 400k) rusty, yet best car I ever drove Wishlist: McFarlan TV6 (only a few privately owned) ReVere with Rochester engine 1917 Premier (only one left) |
#29
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Plastic ones on the back do break - and there's a "feeling" the early metal ones (on the W123 / W114./5) are better. I dunno for sure though...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#30
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Quote:
(So the two nuns riding down a cobble road on bicycles joke didn't apply with the comfort shocks)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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