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  #16  
Old 02-16-2016, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul LeFevre View Post
To all that have contributed positive suggestions, I thank you.

Grezzer: Yes it is just a hobby. I've always liked the body lines of a coupe. It's just a part time car and a learning experience for me. Thanks.

Skippy: I did use Bilsteins and yes the rubber components look pretty bad. I am committed to a full rebuild to save this car. It has no rust and the interior is decent. I'll focus first on the sway bars.

Rocky Raccoon: Steering play, while not perfect, doesn't seem to bad. I'll get it dialed in to handle much better and I'll be in your camp at some point.

BWhitmore: Have no documentation. Bought totally blind. But I'm OK with that. I'll try and research the history a little, thanks.

Mbeige: I have owned a couple of Jettas, a beloved 1988 911 with suspension rebuild, an Audi A6 Quattro with suspension upgrade, and I now have a 2002 Bmw 540i with a 6sp and full suspension rebuild and almost 200k on the clock. Great road car BTW.

This rebuild will continue and I'm sure with the help of this and other fourms will be a great learning experience. Thanks again, everyone.
Looks like you have a taste for suspension rebuilds. A W123 in stock (and old) condition can never equivalently compare to any of those cars.

Don't be so surprised about the W123 - it was designed in the 70's with a balance of comfort and road handling (for its time). Remember that the car came originally with long-travel but soft suspension, this typically gives it the grip by way of having contact despite the body roll.

Good choice on the Bilsteins - which type did you get?

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  #17  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:24 PM
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I installed the standard bilsteins. I just tonight set the timing to 2 degrees advanced versus 0 degrees, and it seems to run better. Just checked my first tank of gas and got a disappointing 15.8 mpg. I have a rural commute of 34 miles round trip. Thanks for the comments. I'm 62 years old and can remember the old suspensions. I'd still consider something radical like a 1" drop with some H&R springs but I don't see them for sale other than in the UK for $500. Again thanks for your comments. We have the same color too.
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2016, 08:59 AM
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Paul:

These cars handled acceptably when new, but had lots of body roll. I test-drove a couple of 123s when new, thinking that I'd like to buy one, walked away disappointed. To compare to other cars of its day I would say that its handling was similar to a Volvo GL sedan, a Volvo GLT would run circles around it. The 123 did have fairly neutral handling, predictable, but the body roll was IMO excessive. Still, once it settled into a turn it stuck pretty well. It was not a car to flog through a tight road course. The Audi cars of the time also cornered flatter, I bought a quattro instead (just introduced, about the same price, wish I kept it). If you wanted a Mercedes that would handle at the time you bought an AMG (Hammer!), at that time a separate company.

My other reason for not liking the 123 at the time was the standard seats, I used to describe them as having one spring in the middle, and the entire seat cushion would tilt and rock beneath you as you drove. This also is normal.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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The following two things can happen

1) All of the rubber parts on the suspension are rotted and dead
2) Cheap alignment places often do not get the job done correctly


It is not uncommon to find W123s that handle like the "Good ship Venus" but look at the design => It is a nice design and can be made to make it feel a little bit more like you're driving on rails (not the sleepers). Saying that you'll not get the handling of a Mazda MX5...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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  #20  
Old 02-18-2016, 01:06 PM
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The W123 (and W126 though less-so) are not exactly "track ready" cars in terms of their handling....its like driving a ship. Going between my W126 and my W201/203/210 is night and day in terms of handling. But the old ones have a road presence missing in the newer models.
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  #21  
Old 02-19-2016, 10:08 PM
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Stretch: I agree totally. Will keep at it.
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2016, 10:55 PM
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The coupe is a bit lighter in the rear than a sedan I believe (I have owned a CD and lots of 240s and 300s). the 280 is heavier than any of the diesel engines I think so that might contribute to the rear acting loose. And you did not mention tires. Tires are a huge part of good handling.

Yeah, the 123 will lean a lot but it will corner. I autocrossed one for a year and a half. The handling should be pretty neutral and it will corner hard once you get it leaned over if shocks suspension and tires are sound. I had h and r lowering springs on my 280e euro that I autocrossed and it did not help all that much because the sway bars are pretty soft. Good luck finding the springs and the after market sway bars are not available that I ever found for a 123.

Its not a sports car but it is a very competent family luxury sedan which will treat you right in an emergency situation.
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  #23  
Old 03-26-2016, 04:20 PM
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I don't want you to get addicted to another hobby but have you tried a W124? The multi-link rear suspension was supposed to improve on the w123's semi-trailing sway arms. I've driven both but not aggressively. Both have long suspension travel, which is an MB trademark. But the W124's rear wheels do not turn in when cornering.

What tires are you using? That has an impact too.


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  #24  
Old 03-26-2016, 06:13 PM
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I have driven the W123 and I have a W124. Great on the highway, not so good on curvy back roads. The suspension is very good but the steering is not. It's heavy and slow and turn-in takes an big armful of wheel. I feel a faster ratio steering box with fewer turns lock-to-lock would make these cars perfect. Or even better, rack & pinion....
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  #25  
Old 04-20-2016, 02:18 AM
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I replaced the front shocks on my 280ce with standard Bilstein's, rather disappointing, the Bilstein's on my 300cd are much stiffer, much more satisfying handling and smooth enough ride. There are stiffer Bilstein's available for these chassis. One other thought, find a W123 "Touring", i.e. "wagon" parts car, "re-purpose" the front swaybar, it's larger diameter...
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2016, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gear-head View Post
I replaced the front shocks on my 280ce with standard Bilstein's, rather disappointing, the Bilstein's on my 300cd are much stiffer, much more satisfying handling and smooth enough ride. There are stiffer Bilstein's available for these chassis. One other thought, find a W123 "Touring", i.e. "wagon" parts car, "re-purpose" the front swaybar, it's larger diameter...
I have noticed a massive difference between standard and HD shocks too
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
I have noticed a massive difference between standard and HD shocks too
When I was still working and used my W123 300D as my work car, putting on 800+ km/week, I had a shop install new shocks. The guy was a great MB mechanic, but also a racing guy - mostly bikes. He decided to put heavy duty shocks on my car. I noticed right away the much harsher ride, especially on some of our rough local roads. I put the standard Bilsteins on my 350SL and it now feels like a modern car - smooth as silk. That is what I prefer - no narrow windy mountain roads to navigate here. Just smooth straight highways mixed with not so good rural roads.

When our 300D was much newer, it would drive as if on rails. Probably the best of the cars we owned at the time. But now, like Paul Lefebre, the car feels loose on the road and has harsh ride over bumps.

I need to check the steering/suspension linkages for wear (Have probably been replaced just once in 440k km). I suspect new front sub-frame mounts would make a difference to ride. On my 350Sl they made a big difference. Need to check front wheel bearings for play too. All when I get time. But at least the old girl IS on the road and my daily driver of choice once again

Finally Paul - Seems trivial, but check your tire pressures. Set them exactly according to the numbers on the fuel fill flap. Too high a pressure on my front tires makes the car feel like it is "floating"!
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:00 AM
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Body roll makes me question the anti sway components. Are the links good?
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Past:
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1981 300D aka Madeline (went to salvage at near 400k) rusty, yet best car I ever drove
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate300d View Post
Body roll makes me question the anti sway components. Are the links good?
Plastic ones on the back do break - and there's a "feeling" the early metal ones (on the W123 / W114./5) are better. I dunno for sure though...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:14 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
When I was still working and used my W123 300D as my work car, putting on 800+ km/week, I had a shop install new shocks. The guy was a great MB mechanic, but also a racing guy - mostly bikes. He decided to put heavy duty shocks on my car. I noticed right away the much harsher ride, especially on some of our rough local roads. I put the standard Bilsteins on my 350SL and it now feels like a modern car - smooth as silk. That is what I prefer - no narrow windy mountain roads to navigate here. Just smooth straight highways mixed with not so good rural roads.

When our 300D was much newer, it would drive as if on rails. Probably the best of the cars we owned at the time. But now, like Paul Lefebre, the car feels loose on the road and has harsh ride over bumps.

I need to check the steering/suspension linkages for wear (Have probably been replaced just once in 440k km). I suspect new front sub-frame mounts would make a difference to ride. On my 350Sl they made a big difference. Need to check front wheel bearings for play too. All when I get time. But at least the old girl IS on the road and my daily driver of choice once again

Finally Paul - Seems trivial, but check your tire pressures. Set them exactly according to the numbers on the fuel fill flap. Too high a pressure on my front tires makes the car feel like it is "floating"!
The HD Bilstein experience I have had was very jiggly on cobbled / paved roads but better on tarmac. The other "comfort" shocks didn't notice the cobbles.

(So the two nuns riding down a cobble road on bicycles joke didn't apply with the comfort shocks)

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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