Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
'83 380sec won't start

hi all, got a sec that sits alot but gets started 2-3x a month until now of course. Usually starts first try-idles at 600rpm but tougher to start after been diven awhile. Now nothing,sputters and tries to start,starting fluid kicks it over no problem-runs few secs. IF I get it running it's because I'm pumping the gas and only at about 300rpm.
What I did,chg fuel pump & filter,jumpered fuel relay,plugs-rotor-cap-wires are only a month old,did run after they were changed. On fuel distributor,disconnected fuel lines on top-jumpered fuel relay-noticed fuel filling where the fuel lines came from equally,seems to drain once fuel relay jumper removed.. Also on fuel distr. steel line closests to front of car driver side,disconnected and spit fuel when cranking starter,reconnected,same side steel line closests firewall disconnected fuel slow poured out of distrib. when cranking. It seems a fuel problem,injectors? Don't know.What am I missing to do next?
thanks

__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 2,963
M:

Consider the possibility of quite a bit of water in the tank, now being picked up in sufficient quantity as to prevent combustion.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-24-2016, 06:51 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,190
^^^ x2

Been there. Done that. Pump some fuel out of your tank and let it settle in a glass jar overnight. See if you can see a division form (would be water/gas separation).
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 70K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "Diseasel Jr." 173K
'94 BMW 525i - "The Red Car" 180k
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-24-2016, 10:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
2 votes for water in the tank,,,worth a test -thanks
__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:57 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 751
Could be. Maybe fuel pressure being lost too. Just picked up a 380se euro car not to long ago and it runs fine but sometimes doesn't want to start even shortly after running. If you open the air cleaner and push the air valve with the key on it will squeal for a second. Then after that it fires right up. We're thinking leaky injectors not closing and letting the fuel pressure out.
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:49 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,190
OP stated that he's replaced the fuel pump and filter, then jumpered the fuel pump relay to confirm that fuel was being injected.

If water did get sucked up through the fuel system and sat for a period of time, it's possible that the injectors are seized and not "popping". Likewise if the fuel filter ruptured and let some crap through the lines, the little screens in the injectors could be clogged shut.

OP: Have you tried dumping a cap of fuel down the air inlet to see if the car will catch on fuel vapor? That would help rule out ignition issues.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 70K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "Diseasel Jr." 173K
'94 BMW 525i - "The Red Car" 180k
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-25-2016, 01:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
took a cup sample of fuel from fuel distrib,-it was amber color and no fluid separation noticed.Pour little of that in throttle body -ran few secs. Checked plugs-all covered in 'soot' -replaced with good used ones-no chg.will run little from starting fluid.Never changed fuel accumalator but thought only effects 'hot' restarts-?-.Fuel is to distrib.-thru lines to injectors. Injectors?but all bad same time,it doesnt even badly.Is that something that is only replaced? Any thoughts?
__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 2,963
M:

A second person will be required for this:
Depress the air flow sensor plate 1/2-3/4" while the engine is being cranked by your assistant. Use a long screw driver or piece of dowel to depress the plate. Depressing the plate will move the fuel metering plunger in the fuel distributor so that slightly more fuel is delivered to the nozzles.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
ok,the more I repeatedly depress the air flow sensor plate 1/2'' or so the more it acts like it wants to start but never fully starts.What does that tell you and me?
__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 2,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALK View Post
ok,the more I repeatedly depress the air flow sensor plate 1/2'' or so the more it acts like it wants to start but never fully starts.What does that tell you and me?
The word "repeatedly" suggests that you are pushing the plate down and then letting it up, and then down & up, etc.
Push the plate down and hold it down, now go down 1". If the starting seems better, push down a little more.

If the starting is improving with increasing depression of the sensor plate, the next items on the list are the FD and the control pressure regulator (aka, warm up regulator>WUR).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-25-2016, 03:00 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Before you go any further I'd check the air idle control valve tubing and make sure that all of that engine breathing / throttle plate by-pass tubing is securely fitted.

There's a pipework to the side and under my mixture unit - I guess there will be similar bits on yours
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-25-2016, 03:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
I was not pushing down and holding till it started-my helper left for the moment.Anyway,I'll be looking for parts now.The air control seems ok-rubber is old but one piece
__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-25-2016, 03:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 2,963
M:

A couple of questions more:
1) How old is the fuel in the tank?
2) Does Florida gasoline contain ethanol?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-26-2016, 12:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: N.PALM BCH
Posts: 41
1 gas station out of 100 has non-ethenol gas, and oddly I added 10 gals. gas,drove about 20 miles,parked it about 3 weeks later, here i am. I have my suspicions,I think i'll drain the tank since too many times it's the simplest of things. Going to get a WUV if it's the FD-I may have to tow it for repair because I have no idea how to setup a different FD. The SEC has such a great ride and handling hate to get rid of it but.....we'll see what happens.
__________________
72 250 CE-5spd-gone
79 280 CE
82 300TD
83 300 CD
83 380 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-26-2016, 11:16 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,190
Considering the car was running and driving, you filled it with gas, then parked and now it won't restart, I doubt very seriously that anything mechanical is wrong. I'd strongly suspect bad gas or water contamination.

__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 70K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "Diseasel Jr." 173K
'94 BMW 525i - "The Red Car" 180k
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page