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  #1  
Old 06-04-2002, 07:13 PM
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Question Gutting a cat, What are the disadvantages?

I know that gutting pre cats opens up the exhaust to flow better, but the O2 sensor is downstream from my pre cats on the M103. Will "opening" them up have any adverse effect on the signal to the O2 and ultimately the ECU?
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Old 06-04-2002, 07:27 PM
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The O2 sensor tells it like it is. If there is unburned fuel in the exhaust flow that the pre-cats would have caught, the O2 sensor will communicate such to the ECU. I don't think it will be a problem since those pre-cats can't be very effective even when new.

You'll likely get a check engine light if you remove a cat that is between two O2 sensors.

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  #3  
Old 06-04-2002, 09:07 PM
it leaks, its german
 
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You'd be amazed at just how effective those precats are. I'd leave them be, if you going to pull a cat, pull the rear one.

Dont gut 'em anyway, drive a pipe all the way through, the openess of the chamber causes a backflow effect that robbs more power than the cat does.




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  #4  
Old 06-04-2002, 11:24 PM
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My only experience with "punching" a cat resulted in a noticeable improvement in power. But, that was a simple system with the sensor in front of the main cat. As ticky as the KEIII injection system is, I just want to know if it's going to create more problems than it cures. By the way, this is on an "off road" vehicle, since it already has clear blinkers!
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Old 06-05-2002, 08:23 AM
LarryBible
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The O2 sensor is actually a lambda sensor. This means that it is measuring temperature. The effect of the catalytic converter being opened up should have no effect one way or the other.

Now to my first thought when reading your post subject. Gutting the cat will use up all nine lives at once.

Good luck,
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Old 06-05-2002, 09:23 AM
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Thanks Larry! After I made this post I went out to the garage and got to thinking, You know, if somebody else had asked this, I would have said "yeah the disadvantage is that it's gonna be hell on the cat"!!:p :p
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  #7  
Old 06-05-2002, 09:24 AM
Chris17H
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Wait...So on my car, I really have 2 cats? Is that that smaller looking cat that you can see from the engine bay at the end of the exhaust manifold? Iv been wandering what that was forever. I ended up asking my dad if that was a CAT or not and he didn't know either.
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2002, 09:30 AM
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Disadvantages? You are screwing with the enviroment and it is illegal
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  #9  
Old 06-05-2002, 09:50 AM
LarryBible
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Everyone,

Yes, the little one near the exhaust manifold is called a light off converter. It heats up very quickly after the engine is started to decrease emissions during the warm up period.

Yosshimura,

Yes, this does have emissions ramifications, however, WITHOUT the converter, you emit hydrocarbons, WITH the converter you emit sulpher(sp?) This is six of one and a half dozen of the other. The biggest environmental advantage to the converter was that when it came out in 1975, it forced everyone to move away from leaded fuel. Otherwise the catalytic converter was just another hoax put over on us by the infinitely wise US Congress. You know, anyone who is elected to congress is automatically an expert on any subject in the world.

Have a great day,
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2002, 10:18 AM
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Hold on here partners!! Before this turns into a battle of Good and Evil let me clarify something!! I'm not talking about removing or altering the main converter. Even though we don't have emissions inspections where I live I would'nt do that. I just think it's overkill to have three cats on a car!! I am not aware of other manufacturers putting that many on their cars. But in Larry's defense, why is the United States the only country that has emissions laws and a freon control? It's OK for the rest of the world to pollute but not US.
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  #11  
Old 06-05-2002, 04:24 PM
Benzman500
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I did it on my BMW and felt a small diffrence in the pickup sounds better too. If you do punch out out let it hang and drive around for a little while so you blow out the small parts of metal.
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2002, 07:54 PM
Jackd
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Correction to a previous post:
Not only the USA have emission laws and restriction on FreonR12-
Several European countries have endorsed similar laws and regulation. North of the border (called Canada) also have very strick emission laws, very similar to the California laws.
I can't see why there are some many people bashing about cat. This is not where the restriction is in an exhaust system. The biggest restriction is generally at the exhaust manifold and muffler end, not at the cat.
You can open/remove/enlarge the cat as wide as you wish, there will not be any significant performance increase, except the one ''perceived''
JackD
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2002, 09:00 PM
Benzman500
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A lot of people don't do it for preformance they do it because of the cost of replacing it.
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2002, 10:54 PM
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I am not the brightest light in the hall but I do know this.... all internal combustion engines are basically air pumps. If you restrict the intake or the exhaust, then you deminish efficiency of the machine. Race engines can race because they can BREATHE . Any improvement in this capability results in a power gain. All I'm trying to do is free up a horsepower or two. And, if the fuel mileage increases, I won't complain!!
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2002, 02:32 PM
inspector1
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Lightbulb Other countries emissions

Hey Captain Carageous,

I was following the discussion about the pre-cat and if you should gut it. I wanted to respond specifically to the statement of the US being the only country to have emissions testing...and freon laws

Germany, all the Scandinavian countries as well as other east European countries have vehicle emissions testing, freon laws I am not sure.

Canada, in BC and Ontario, Australia also do emissions.

as a post script, my thinking has always been, if a part is on a vehicle, the engineers designed it that way for a reason. All the parts make up the whole and they are interelated acting together, often removing or destroying one effects the others functionability/performance. It is best not to gut the cat.
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