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  #1  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:27 PM
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Vacuum EZL vs 4 connector style EZL

What is the difference between the two styles of m103 EZL other than one being vacuum controlled? We have a 1989 190E that has the 4 connector kind on it but one of them doesn't go anywhere. That leads me to believe that were not getting the right spark advance.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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I'm not aware that the '89 configuration is different than my '88 190E 2.6, but mine has a vacuum line from the manifold to the EZL. Most of it is that 3 mm white nylon tubing, but there are short, molded rubber hoses at both ends to connect the nylon tube to the nipples at both the inlet manifold and EZL.

The EZL has a sensor that converts manifold vacuum to additional spark advance (basically an electronic version of the old mechanical vacuum advance "can"), but it's disabled by a signal from the throttle position switch when the throttle is at the idle position. At idle, timing is fixed by the EZL at 9 deg. BTC and is not adjustable.

Duke
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:23 PM
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How many connectors does yours have on it? We have wires for the CPS and then the other two large ones further down on the EZL and both do have the vacuum port I was mistaken. What I'm referring to is this difference shown with these images I found online https://imgur.com/a/0rWHWCH

Edit Looks like that extra connector is for a knock sensor that we do not have https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/1511396-electrical-wiring-diagram-ezl-8-pin.html
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:51 AM
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The image wouldn't download. The EZL on my '88 has two large round multi-pin connectors at the bottom and a small round connector near the top next to the nipple for the manifold vacuum signal line that I believe is for the crank position sensor, and no additional connectors for knock sensors.

It appears to conform to the block diagram in the Benzworld image, but not to the pin diagram image, which has provisions for knock sensor inputs.

The part number is 006 545 75 32

Duke
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:49 PM
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Right I think its just that the extra connector is for a knock sensor we don't have.
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  #6  
Old 04-19-2019, 07:37 PM
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I'd probably dump the $$$$ EZL and use a electronic advance ignition from someone like MSD. This way you have full control over the spark curve.
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  #7  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty190 View Post
Right I think its just that the extra connector is for a knock sensor we don't have.
In addition to the knock sensors, there is also a bi-directional data connection between the EZL and the CIS. This was the first time Mercedes shared data between modules. Its also a big part of why you can't interchange them with the earlier version.
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90 300TE 4-M

Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
T04B cover .60 AR
Stage 3 turbine .63 AR
A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control
3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys,
Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster.
3.07 diffs, 1st Gear Start

90 300CE 104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
197 intake cam w/20 advancer
4 ignition advance
PCS TCM2000 running 722.6 trans, 600W PWM fan, water injection
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:17 PM
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I wonder of this is actual data ( Like over CAN ) or just an analog signal or frequency for engine load.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:08 PM
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I've heard is described as the "earliest version of CAN" and afaik it is serial data.
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90 300TE 4-M

Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
T04B cover .60 AR
Stage 3 turbine .63 AR
A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control
3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys,
Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster.
3.07 diffs, 1st Gear Start

90 300CE 104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
197 intake cam w/20 advancer
4 ignition advance
PCS TCM2000 running 722.6 trans, 600W PWM fan, water injection
Sportline sway bars
V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2019, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty190 View Post
Right I think its just that the extra connector is for a knock sensor we don't have.
The M103 engine on 201 chassis doesn't have knock sensors...
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:09 PM
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We ran it at a track day this weekend. It ran well with the ezl that uses a knock sensor but had a huge jump in power at round 4k with the one that seems like it belongs in the car. So that was interesting.

In regards to electronic fuel and ignition control that would be nice. I don't have time or money for that project. If we focused on making everything perfect the car would never run .
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:37 AM
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KE3 doesn't really need any piggy back fuel control. Literally 2 of them identical to any 103 setup is bolted in a twin setup on a Ferrari Testarossa. Stock out of the box they are rated for as much as 70% fuel requirement increase without any modification. The Lambda loop its fuel control module operates has 5-6 bar of fuel pressure to work with and has no problem at all maintaining stoichometric with vastly increased fuel delivery requirements without any modifications at all. Note also that WOT switch on the linkage disables the lambda loop for full throttle enrichment so that's not an issue either.

The KE3 problem is spark mapping, since it doesn't have a knock sensor it is like an early electronic ignition setup, little better than a points ignition system in that it is designed to pre-emptively prevent engine knock rather than dynamically prevent it like modern EFI. So you never get quite as good a spark advance as you could, due to the error margin required with predictive systems and it retards when it may not need to, finally an end user lockout means you can't remap it for custom camshaft profiles or forced induction conversions so you never really get the most out of a dramatically modified engine without a spark ECU piggy back you can map.

That is, unless like me you got super lucky and happened upon a genuine AMG 3.2 ignition module in Amsterdam and installed that to recurve your spark for a hotter camshaft. Still not as good as EFI but much cheaper even at the collector's price of an original M103 AMG part.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty190 View Post
We ran it at a track day this weekend. It ran well with the ezl that uses a knock sensor but had a huge jump in power at round 4k with the one that seems like it belongs in the car. So that was interesting.

In regards to electronic fuel and ignition control that would be nice. I don't have time or money for that project. If we focused on making everything perfect the car would never run .
I don't know how your engine varies from the OE configuration, but you can get a more aggressive spark advance map by removing the R16/1 resistor that is in a pigtail tied to the plastic panel inboard of the battery.

About ten years ago I took the spark advance map (less vacuum advance) for the OE 750 ohm resistor, no resistor, and the connector shorted. The most aggressive map is with no resistor, but I think this config. and the OE resistor both yield 32 degrees max advance at 3200 revs, but with no resistor there's much more advance down low, which provides noticeably more torque/power down low and allows me to use 5th gear down to as little as 30 MPH (about 1200 revs) vs. 45 MPH with the OE resistor.

Either way the engine has a strong pull from 5000 to the rev limiter, but with no resistor the power curve is more linear from off-idle to the rev limiter.

I short the resistor for emission testing, which significantly slows the rate of advance with increasing revs because it lowers emissions (HC is on the ragged edge with the OE resistor), but there is little power below 2000 and virtually no power below 1500.

You can search for threads started by me to see the data.

Duke
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:11 AM
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I've heard about this resistor a number of times but we definitely do not have it nor have I seen any wiring to indicate it was ever there. So I'm not sure what that means but I can't play any games with that.



What I did experience this weekend was sluggish acceleration to 4k RPM then it pulled like it did with the EZL that has a knock sensor provision on it. We swapped them throughout the day to confirm this. Maybe the non knock sensor one is broken.



The engine is a 3.0 from a 124 with 2.6 intake and exhaust manifolds to delete the EGR and the 3.0 fuel distributor and injectors. Otherwise basically stock with a little milled off the head when we did a refresh. I don't know if they actually are different but it seemed wise to use those since they came with the engine in the came with the engine.
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Current:
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'95 E420

Previous:
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke2.6 View Post
I don't know how your engine varies from the OE configuration, but you can get a more aggressive spark advance map by removing the R16/1 resistor that is in a pigtail tied to the plastic panel inboard of the battery.

About ten years ago I took the spark advance map (less vacuum advance) for the OE 750 ohm resistor, no resistor, and the connector shorted. The most aggressive map is with no resistor, but I think this config. and the OE resistor both yield 32 degrees max advance at 3200 revs, but with no resistor there's much more advance down low, which provides noticeably more torque/power down low and allows me to use 5th gear down to as little as 30 MPH (about 1200 revs) vs. 45 MPH with the OE resistor.

Either way the engine has a strong pull from 5000 to the rev limiter, but with no resistor the power curve is more linear from off-idle to the rev limiter.

I short the resistor for emission testing, which significantly slows the rate of advance with increasing revs because it lowers emissions (HC is on the ragged edge with the OE resistor), but there is little power below 2000 and virtually no power below 1500.

You can search for threads started by me to see the data.

Duke
The complication of this approach is the different part numbers of ignition modules between export variants. As engineered the module has a broad range of ignition maps, with the one used chosen by the speed of a reference call, which is controlled by resistance that is selected on a dial at the module. This called the R16 reference.

The R16 module (with the selectable dial) has a number of ignition maps for different fuel types, plus baseline and test maps for workshop tuning, bench reference and troubleshooting purposes. This is because several fuel grades are local to European drivers depending on region and one or the other may not be available at a given time on a highway through several countries. Also ECU systems were at infancy of self diagnosis at the time and troubleshooting was done more by mechanics than computers so there are some bench maps to help with that, they're not meant for driving with.

So, bunch of ignition maps, some for fuel grades, some for bench use and not driving. I think there's one for arid/premium as opposed to alpine/premium as well and there's one for track fuel (shell ultra) which seems odd but there you go. A score of maps for fine tuning and diagnosis.

Overseas exports use a more limited variation due to more limited local fuel availabilities, the R16/1 module with different part numbers and have a fixed resistor for the reference call mounted in the battery compartment. These vary by the export region, which I believe goes something like USA/Japan, Australia/New Zealand, Asia/Burma and Middle East.

Since they have different part numbers what is likely and has been postulated during several discussions in the past is the export variations of more limited ignition modules have no reason to have been loaded with maps other than the R16/1 type for that region, plus diagnostic and limp maps.

The ultimate conclusion became then, the best resistor value for the reference call in more limited R16/1 variations of the module is the one fitted at factory, since it is at least guaranteed to have a proper driving map loaded for that value. What is most likely if you either bridge the resistor (0ohms) or remove it (infinitive ohms) is that you either put the module into limp mode or diagnostic mode, whilst replacing the resistor with a different value most likely defaults to limp mode since there are no other maps loaded onto the limited R16/1 variation of the ignition module.

What also appears likely is limp mode is the same map that is used in the Euro R16 module for the lowest fuel grade (Burma, some parts of Eastern Europe, 89RON), since this is the one used with the dial switched to 0ohms.
ie. so bridging the R16/1 probably gets you limp mode which is also the map used for 89RON poor quality fuels.

Quite simply other than the ignition map the export region R16/1 is meant for (USA/Japan 96RON, Australia 89 or 91RON depending on year, etc.), and limp and diagnostic maps there is just no reason for the factory to have other ignition maps loaded on that export.

Certainly there are plenty of anecdotes around the web of improved performance claims by bridging or removing the R16/1 resistor but anecdotal evidence is extremely subjective. For example I fitted a set of fabbed headers on my track prepped 103 and it changed the sensation during acceleration so that senses suggested it actually dropped torque due to lower back pressure and it'd be easy to convince myself of this, that is how it felt. But if you looked out the window you found it was actually accelerating better over a broader range compared to other cars of the same performance, the torque curve was a lot broader but since it was less sharp the sensation was less. So it seemed to have lost torque in sensation but actually gained torque if you look out the window.

Now here's the trick: that's not to say that bridging or deleting the resistor may not improve performance under a given set of conditions. The whole point about predictive ignition mapping like the KE3 is being very generalized and compensating very little for environmental conditions other than local fuel grade. It's a sort of one size fits all application that is the very source of its limitation. For example I played with thermostats and fitted water-methanol injection just to keep it from losing performance on hot days, which isn't particularly noticeable on a stock or near stock engine but with vastly improved flow rates and performance modification you really feel a substantial horsepower loss anywhere near 30C ambient with KE3 compared to an EFI setup or ignition controlled by a knock sensor and fast processing ECU (like some of the piggy back KE ignitions out there).

So you may find playing with your R16/1 resistor could give an anecdotal or actual performance gain under a given condition, but the most intelligent rule of thumb for general daily driving is really to use the resistor value fitted by factory for your export model. It is the one guaranteed to have a driving ignition map that won't cause any problems. The best alternative would be properly modified (ie. piggy backed) or swapped out ignition module (ie. swapping an Oz EZL and 260ohms 91RON resistor for a Japanese EZL and 740ohms 96RON resistor to guarantee the map for the new resistor value is actually loaded into that particular EZL).
The ignition maps for 98RON and Shell Ultra that are installed on the Euro R16 module are most likely not loaded into export R16/1 modules. Your EZL probably doesn't have them and neither are bridged or infinitive resistance values anyway, so you couldn't access them by bridging or removing the resistor either way.
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