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  #1  
Old 06-27-2002, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rocklin CA
Posts: 65
Adding Water Wetter

Kind of stupid question, but after reading all the engine running hot postings I want to make sure I'm not going to screw up.

My MB's are in California and will NEVER be in temperature below 0F. Looks like the antifreeze to Water Ratio could run 30/70 and everything would be fine.

Until I redo the mixture to that, I do have the other problem in that where my cars are the outside Temp is 90 to 100 degrees most of the year, so I want to run the engine's cooler. I have bought some Water Wetter and want to put a bottle in each car.

I was planning on just opening the radiator cap and pouring in a bottle each. It seems such a small amount that I don't have to worry about overfilling or anything like that. Is that fine or should I pour it in the overflow resovouir?

Any and all advice is appreciated.
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96 S500 79K (great white whale)
98 E430 80K Sports Package (gray ghost)
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2002, 02:40 PM
Michael's Avatar
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As long as you don't overfill the system you're fine. Otherwise, siphon out a liter or so. If it looks like the coolant level is correct, be safe and simply siphon some out-you can always add more later
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1995 E500 street car
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2002, 02:46 PM
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Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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I know there are a thousand posts on this, but I still don't see how the increase in efficiency due to addition of Water Wetter could be anything but incredibly marginal ... marginal, too, in the sense that it simply doesn't matter ...

Is there an independent test result that someone can share with me?
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George Stephenson
1991 350 SDL (200K and she ain't bent, yet)
former 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon - good car
former 1985 300 CD - great car
former 1981 300 TD - good car
former 1972 280 SEL - not so good car
a couple of those diesel Rabbits ...40-45 mpg
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2002, 03:02 PM
pmizell's Avatar
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Good question Stephenson...

I don't think there is any empirical data supporting WaterWetter's effectiveness but people swear by it's heat dispersal capabilities.

Running at 70/30 ratio, I seriously doubt you'd see any difference at all -- the WW would, however, add a bit of corrosion protection as it has that property too.

Down here in scorching hot Houston, I've had WW in a 70/30 water to coolant ratio and found no difference in coolant temperature. With that low of coolant % though, you need all the corrosion protection you can get.

My 2 pennies...

~Paul

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  #5  
Old 06-27-2002, 03:04 PM
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George:

There have been a 1000 posts and at least that many opinions here about Water Wetter. Here comes my independent diyer opinion.

I experimented with it, using the refill/bleed techniques specified for my engine. I filled the block about 1/2 way with 40% coolant & 60% distilled water which was premixed; then added a bottle of water wetter and finished topping off the block. I did this to ensure it was mixed in well with the coolant. Some have posted that they merely pour it in the expansion tank. I'm not sure that it would ever really blend in well with the rest of the mixture going that route.

Temp gauge readings remained as before. 87C or so on the road; 100C at idle in hot weather. Same ole same ole.

Some here have said that your temp gauge readings will not be affected. If that's so, how in the %^&$ does anyone know this stuff is really working? Yes I know Redline says it works and I would expect them to say just that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard any of the pro techs her endorse this product. If it was of real value, I'd suspect they would have said so. If any of them did, please point me at the thread.

My car has the M103 motor - SOHC. On this site and others, I've seen countless posts, all indicating what I mentioned above about temp. spread. The owners manual even says it's quite normal for these engines to get hot.

I think some of us are unduly concerned because we're used to Asian/Americam cars that read the same whether it's 20F or 100F oustide.

My 2 cents.
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2002, 03:19 PM
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Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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Agree with all you said, Mike.

Great product to manufacture and sell if your customers can't tell what it does for them.

I suspect all car engine temps move up and down since most use the same basic kind of tstat ... most simply don't have coolant temp gages.
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George Stephenson
1991 350 SDL (200K and she ain't bent, yet)
former 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon - good car
former 1985 300 CD - great car
former 1981 300 TD - good car
former 1972 280 SEL - not so good car
a couple of those diesel Rabbits ...40-45 mpg
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2002, 03:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rocklin CA
Posts: 65
WOW

Guess I got an interesting discussion going.

Maybe while I've got the hood up pouring in that water wetter I'll put in a Tornado air flow/hp increaser and change the oil to a 50/50 synthtic /synblend mixture, but I won't change the oil filter this time.

HE HE HE just kidding.

It's great to get everyone's opinions on these things. That's why we spend time on this site.
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96 S500 79K (great white whale)
98 E430 80K Sports Package (gray ghost)
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2002, 03:47 PM
Jackd
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In my opinion, WaterWetter falls in the same category of most (if not all) miracle products sold in plastic bottle with the assurance it will solve all of the world problems.
Oil additives,
Gasoline additives (with the exception of very very few injector cleaners)
Prolong,
superLube,
Snake Oil
Tornado
gasLine magnet
K & N filters.
Amsoil
and tons of other product sold only as the result of very effective and brilliant marketing campains to people looking for solutions to question nobody ever asked.
A car is not designed to overheat. if it does, there is something wrong with it. Instead of putting a questionnable band-aid to the problem, I,d rather go to hte source of the problem. (unless such product is used solely to postpone the repair.
JackD
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2002, 01:35 AM
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Bad-mouthing WaterWetter, K&N, and Amsoil?? Gosh, having used those products for a few years I guess I got sucked in :-(

Pure demineralized water is the best engine coolant BUT tends to corrode the plumbing and freeze up at lower temps. Adding anti-corrosion/anti-freeze mixtures to water will address those problems BUT as you dilute pure water, you diminish it's superior heat transfer properties. I've found that, for summer track and performance driving, a 20% anti-freeze to 80% water mixture will keep temperatures down while protecting the cooling system (my mechanic can't believe how clean it is). WaterWetter claims to chemically improve the heat transfer of even water and, at $10/bottle, I've used it for several years as cheap insurance. After reading several threads complaining about high engine temps of the M119 motor, all I can say is I don't have that problem.

K&N filters flow more air through the filter medium compared with the factory filters. Whether you've done all the right things to turn more air into more power is another question. Increasing air intake volume, fuel and exhaust flow are required before you'll see more power, in most cases.

What's wrong with Amsoil? Its a well-known tuner's preference, not quite up there with Red Line but certainly the equal of WalMart brands like Mobil, Castrol, etc.

Yours in speed
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2002, 03:34 AM
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
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Cooling

Watched my son have these kinds of fits on one of his two turbo 300Ds. Drove him nuts, until he finally checked the surge tank around the neck area and found a hairline crack. No pressure in the cooling system. New tank, no problem! Check yours!!

Couldn't make my 240D/300D G-Wagen powered beauty overheat if you parked it on top of a grass fire.

Ben
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2002, 11:20 AM
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Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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OK, I'll buy the "insurance" concept ... I was simply asking if anyone had any data to substantiate anything more than a sub percent marginal effectiveness increase ...

While I haven't done any research on aftermarket air filter systems, I have heard Pat Goss of Goss' Garage (syndicated radio talk show) note repeatedly that improved flow filters offer a very slight improvement (assuming all else is constant) ONLY at full throttle positions - he contends that the DO NOTHING at any other throttle position. Claims he has tested the ones that the manufacturers would provide to him.
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George Stephenson
1991 350 SDL (200K and she ain't bent, yet)
former 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon - good car
former 1985 300 CD - great car
former 1981 300 TD - good car
former 1972 280 SEL - not so good car
a couple of those diesel Rabbits ...40-45 mpg
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2002, 11:55 AM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Check annotated chart on my page

that shows the difference with and without WW. It's about halfway down the page. ('www house' below and select Menu #16).

During this test, the engine heat was removed quicker (about 9 secs) and the temp differential was kept to around 15 degs F.

As we all know on this forum, the FTC has successfully sued the makers of oil additives such as Prolong, etc. as being 'snake oil'! And those infomercials have been removed from TV. The companies involved have paid large fines.

But I've not heard of any suits against WW.
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Last edited by JimF; 06-28-2002 at 10:20 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2002, 12:09 PM
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JimF,

Don't see a URL ...
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George Stephenson
1991 350 SDL (200K and she ain't bent, yet)
former 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon - good car
former 1985 300 CD - great car
former 1981 300 TD - good car
former 1972 280 SEL - not so good car
a couple of those diesel Rabbits ...40-45 mpg
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2002, 10:19 PM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Question:

what you do think "www 'house' below" means?????
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'94 S500 Cpe

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  #15  
Old 06-28-2002, 10:38 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Guys,

Jackd used a pretty broad brush in his swipe at the bottled miracles and supershine number 9 and so on.

I think Amsoil, K&N and RedLine offer a variety of excellent products. I judge most of the products I buy based on data I can get without generating it myself, and in some cases I admit I can be swayed to try one item based on having had good experience with another of that manufacturer's offerings.

I use RedLine's array of gear lubes, Diesel fuel catalyst, and Water Wetter. While I am not in a position to conduct an engineering study using my car to figure out that Water Wetter does or does not work, I believe it does reduce the tendency of the coolant to cavitate based on first hand experience. I used it for the life of my 1986 190E 2.3-16, which lasted 205,000 miles before it burned an exhaust valve and had to have the head off for a rebuild. In its earliest incarnations it was a substance like pink Bromoseltzer and you had to add this solid stuff to the radiator.

Anyway, when the aluminum head came off there was nothing in the way of chemical deposits or pitting on any visible surfaces in the coolant passages. The tech working on the car noted the head was preserved better than expected, as he was astounded the water pump and the head looked nearly new after 200,000 miles. I replaced the water pump just because it was much easier to get to with the engine torn down, and I could not believe it was going to last another 200,000.

I am also reasonably certain the data on RedLine's site is reasonable. The theory behind the concept is good physics, and the fact that the lack of cavitation damage noted as unusual by the tech (very good qualifications, came recommended from another member of this forum) supports the wetting function works, so I believe the improved heat transfer works too.

I seriously doubt most installations will result in lower temperatures on the water temp gage that is witnessed by the operator. This is because most of the time the conditions the car is operated in do not run up to the maximum heat removal capacity of the system, and that is the only time when a lower temperature is likely to be apparent.

For example, when the coolant temperature of the system is controlled by the thermostat, the presence of WaterWetter will not affect the coolant temperature. The same is true when the limiting factor is the thermostat malfunctioning, or the viscous fan, or the electric fan clutches not working (not enough air to remove the heat, even if it gets to the radiator faster or more efficiently, will not lower the temps), or some other system element failure.

So, do not expect WaterWetter to make up for a failure of some part of the coolant system, and do not expect to see a real temperature difference on the temperature gage until you get to the point with the system where everything is working at full capacity, and correctly. In that case you should see a temperature difference if WaterWetter in fact allows the coolant to pick up heat in the head and transport it to the walls of the radiator more effectively. This characteristic is shown to exist in the data on RedLine's site, but you have to understand what it really means. In the very least, it does reduce the propensity for cavitation, and it will therefore limit the existence of hot spots due to unfavorable flow characteristics that come along with cavitation and the conditions that lead to cavitation.

The point is though, if some part of the system is maxed out by either capacity or some degradation, WaterWetter will not cure the problem or increase the system capacity. I hope this is reasonably clear. And I have no affiliation with RedLine whatsoever, I just like their products, including WaterWetter. Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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