This may sound sacrelige but.... I need your opinion here.

[96C220]

Okay an interesting situaton has presented itself here to purchase (gasp...) a BMW M3 - 1995 model, manual trans.

The body has 160k miles

The engine was replaced at 122k mi because the dinan supercharger the owner had on it basically destroyed it.

The transmission was replaced at 117k mi cause of a stripped 2nd gear synchro.

The car is owned by a co-worker of mine, who has had it since day one...

It was initially leased, and then bought out by him.

He has high performance brakes, stainless lines, and a bunch of other stuff - intake, exhaust etc.

The car has been driven hard, autocrossed etc... has been through several sets of wheels, but has been maintained well, and looks near new.

He is going to trade it for a 540i 6spd. - He's crossing into that dangerous zone known as adulthood - his daughter is 6 and he wants something with more room and less of a harsh ride.

I can have the car for ~ 10000.

The car would be a 3rd car for me - Mostly a weekend / nice day toy. I've been longing for a manual transmission for a while, and there are very slim pickings in the MB arena.

I would kill for a 190e 2.3 - 16 with a manual in the NJ / NY area that hasnt had 15 winters take its toll on the body, but that is a dream for a different day.

Oh well, thanks in advance to the advice,

George

[pentoman]

The main question you will have to ask is, can you afford to run it?

A low list price is well and good..

BUT, of all the cars I would ever want to have to pay to run, the very bottom of the list (next to an old, mistreated Porsche 911) is a well-thrashed BMW M-car.. especially at 160,000 miles, and /especially/ one that's been autocrossed and modded. Parts are very expensive.

IMO If you want a good (manual) M.. go looking for an M3 that is worth owning, I wouldn't recommend buying this one just because it presented itself. As it's a weekend toy you won't use daily, you're probably best off with a good condition, pref. low mileage one if you can hack the investment.


Bear in mind, if you're looking for a weekend/nice day toy, an M3, especially the E36 M3, doesn't really cut it, it's just a high power saloon(well coupe) - *especially* alongside real sports cars such as the very highly rated Porsche 968.


my £0.02

good luck with whatever you get!

Russ

[G-Benz]

I agree. The car has seen a hard life, and you are only aware of what has been replaced due to failure.

Many other components suffered abuse during that period but haven't announced themselves yet, such as the suspension (bushings, spindles, springs shocks, etc.).

And because it is an M3, despite what might be shared by the other BMW platforms, the parts for that model will always be more expensive to purchase.

[Richard Eldridge]

The whole thing boils down to whether this is exactly what you want, and whether it is the best one you can get for the money.

There are always more used cars people want to sell than people who want to buy them.

The main elements are time and money.

How much money can you spend?

How long can you wait?

Somewhere, at some time, someone will want to sell either that 2.6 manual 190, or a manual transmission will become avaialable and you can install it in the 190 you already have.

Surely somewhere in Europe that transmission exists, waiting for you to buy it.

On the other hand, an M3 (I assume this is a convertible) is a very sexy car, and I don't think $10,000 is that bad a price.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[Greg Fragano]

with a 5 -speed. You'll enjoy the gobs of torque and the handling is quite good! The ride is not harsh and you're more in tune with the road than a MB. I'm on my third one now and haven't regretted the experience. I also have a 560SL. It a great touring car, but not the same driving experience of a BMW.

Greg

[kip Foss]

Remember, the car may have a relatively new engine and trans. but not only does the rest of the car have 160K miles on it but all components that suffer during driving, i.e., suspension, rear end, etc. have 160k hard miles on them.

The suspension bushings may be new but the 'A' arms, shocks, springs, steering linkages, ball joints, etc. have probably all taken a tremendous beating. Take the car to a good front end alighment place and get it checked. The arms may be bent to such an extent that the car may be right at the limits of alignemt adjustment. Remember, that if you have to replace one are the others are not far behind it. Could be in for big bucks.

[neileg]

Hard driving such as you suggest will have stressed the bodyshell. Even if it is still straight (unlikely) it is always going to feel 'loose'.

Plus, use of power enough to trash the engine and gearbox and probably the wheels, is going to leave the diff, halfshafts all very suspect.

An M3 can be an enjoyable car despite not being a real sports car, but this sounds like it's going to be hole in the road into which you pour money.

And no matter what you do to it, it's never going to be as good as the same car that has been driven more sympathetically.

But it's your money. You could just waste it on fast women and slow horses!

[JDUB]

Drive the M# for a few days. I found riding in one very uncomfortable. The seats are hard and the ride is harsh. On the M3 I was shocked to see to poor build quilty on the one I drove. ( a friend's). When it was relatively new the drivers door would not open (plastic handle defective) The interior plastic crap was falling apart. I thought about a BMW but I'm too cheap to let someone else do the maintenance like valve adjustments which require expensive tools.

[96C220]

I go to work and I ask the guy what is going on with the car, let me take it for a ride etc....

And he says its gone. Apparently he went around to a few dealers and took the highest offer he could get for it asap. He ended up selling the car for the sub 8000 range, just because as he put it "it was time to go".

Oh well the search carries on.

Thanks for all the advice,

George

[mbtjc]

How can the E36 M3 not be considered a real sports car when it was deemed "The World's Best Handling Car" time and time again by more than one magazine...notable ones too, like C&D and MT. I remember that in at least one of the tests it beat, amongst other cars, a Ferrari F355 and a Viper. As far as a car being a sports car or not, I would put just as much if not more weight on handling as outright power. The Miata has next to no power and no one says it's not a sports car! I know no one said it, but I hope no one is implying that a 190 2.3-16 is a "real sports car"!!

Also, if you are interested in an M3 and are wanting to do mods, go for a 95 because that was the last year of OBD I and you can do ten times more to a 95 than a 96. If you want to mod one check out www.activeautowerke.com. If you don't want to mod one, get a later model with the 3.2 (95 was a 3.0). Although they had the same HP (240), I think the 3.2 was a little torquier and a little easier going if I remember correctly. Let us know what you end up doing!

[Richard Eldridge]

I would call a BMW M3 a sports car. It's not exactly a 1965 Mustang or a 1958 T Bird, after all.

Many years ago, (in the late 50's) a friend and I bought a wrecked MG TD and rebuilt it. The following summer we bought a 1950 Jaguar XK 120 from the same semi-alcoholic veteran farmer with an English wife and restored that. We sold the MG for $1200, realizing a profit of nearly $500. The Jag went for $1950, and an $800 profit (which was our labor). I am afraid that both went out with shiny new paint from Ol' Earl Scheib (both British Racing Green). Minimum wage at the time was around 70 cents an hour, so we thought we had really outwitted the system. Many, many test drives were required.

Although both of these cars certainly handled better than my 1949 Studebaker Champion or my buddy's Henry J, neither seemed capable of holding the road so well or stopping so quickly as my 1985 TDT wagon, which certrtainly is not a sports car in anyone's book.

So I guess the bar has been raised over the years.

It would be nice to have the MG or the Jag around. They sure were cool looking vehicles, ever so much cooler than a 1950 Ford Tudor, even with blue taillight gems and double spotlights.

Many years later I learned that in 1950 the XK120 did not come in British Racing Green, unless one had a really good friend in the factory, I suppose..

[pentoman]

So we don't go too off topic, I started a new thread to discuss what's a sports car:

Sports car?