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  #1  
Old 06-19-2000, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Charleston, West Virginia, USA
Posts: 110
I just had to post this...to see the responses.

My father (and I spent most of yesterday with him at my childhood home, for Father's Day) thinks I should add some ATF to my engine to curb valve-side burning of oil in my '85 190E 2.3L. I was not very enthusiastic...can we say adamantly opposed to the idea of doing this.

Why would he even suggest it? He knows his wrenches...but he hasn't ever played with MBs.

Thanks,
John

------------------
John J. Meadows
'85 190E 2.3L 99k mi.
My first M-B, not my last.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2000, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Gas powered engines w/catlytic converter should'nt have ATF mixed w/fuel. ATF has compounds like BRASS that can harm the precious metals in the converter. Use a good fuel treatment to clean carbon, & have valve stem seals replaced to slow down oil consumption. Never use ATF in crankcase as it won't hold-up to bearing pressure requirements.

------------------
MERCEDES BENZ MASTER GUILD TECHNICIAN
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN
27 YEARS DEALER M.B. Shopforeman
190E 2.3 ITS RACECAR
1986 190E 16V
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2000, 09:11 PM
MikeTangas's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 4,430
Almost reminicent of the old days when we would clean a thouroughly gunked up engine by draining the oil and filling with fuel oil. Then we'd run it 10 minutes or so and drain the fuel oil, dump the gunked up fuel oil in the tractor, refill the crankcase with cheap oil, run 10-15 minutes and change again.

But that was the old days, there are better (and probably safer) ways now. Just another post Fathers Day remembrance.

------------------
Mike Tangas
73 280 SEL 4.5
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2000, 01:00 AM
jrd jrd is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 52
I added half a quart of ATF to about 1/3
tank of diesel fuel on my 87 300D turbo
with 192k miles. The clear fuel filter
now shows a very slight pink/tan instead of
the pale green/yellow diesel fuel, so I know
it's in there. The idle is noticeably
smoother.

Dunno if the idle will roughen up when I
remove the ATF or not, but I love the way
it has smoothed out since I have added the
ATF.

I've been told that ATF in the crankcse
is okay as long as you "keep your foot out
of it." But I have NOT tried this. Instead,
I have switched to Mobil 1 15w-50 synthetic
and the oil is gradually going from the color
of olive oil to a thick pitch black, a sign
that a lot of crud is getting in (and,
hopefully, OUT of an engine with 13 years
of gunk buildup).

I'd be curious as to whether Mobil 1
synthetic could clean injectors if added by
the quart to a tank of diesel.

Justin Dobbs
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2000, 07:22 AM
LarryBible
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darius,

Oh for the good ol' days. In the fifties and sixties and probably on into the seventies, replacing one of the quarts of oil at oil change time with a quart of ATF was not totally uncommon. The idea was to add lots of detergent to the oil to keep the inside of the engine clean. Compared to todays modern oil/additive combinations, engine oil then was crude by comparison.

You're dear ol' Dad probably improved an engine at one time with this remedy. In the sixties, you could take the valve cover off a lot of engines and find the ugliest gunked up mess you can imagine. When you found this, it was usually an engine using Havoline or Amalie (when was the last time you saw Amalie oil?)

Because there were oils that allowed engines to get really gunked up, there were lots of opportunities for various remedies to clean them out.

Be thankful for dear ol' Dad and his experiences, but if you do have a gunked up engine in these days, step up your oil change intervals and make sure the engine is piping hot when you drain the oil.

Good luck,
Change oil hot and change oil often,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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  #6  
Old 06-20-2000, 12:52 PM
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: So. Burlington, VT
Posts: 78
I'm surprised that none of you "old timers" have discussed a product called Marvel Mystery Oil!!! MMO can be added to fuel or crankcase to perform the same magic that Darius' father is promoting with ATF. I have no experience with MMO in a car that has a catalytic converter and am not even promoting the product. I have heard through the "old timer" grapevine that MMO is basically ATF but I suspect it may not have all the additives that a tranny might need. The last time I used it was in my 1965 Ford Falcon and it did indeed clean the engine and improve performance. I would use MMO before I would dump some ATF in any automobile.
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  #7  
Old 06-20-2000, 08:10 PM
MikeTangas's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 4,430
Larry,

You almost brought up a little post traumatic stress syndrome with your mention of Amalie. "Amalie better than it has to be", if I remember correctly. Just about the waxiest stuff going I think. Had a 69 Pontiac at one time, original owner ran only Amalie. The valve train, both banks was completely encased in wax. Took a long time to clean, scraping, fuel oil and many changes, but eventually got her clean.

------------------
Mike Tangas
73 280 SEL 4.5
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2000, 02:50 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 5,440
If ATF belonged in Engine lubricating oil, the oil manufacturer would put it there. My 300SD has 225,000 miles and recently when I had the valve cover off to adjust the valves, the head, camshaft or valve springs didn't have a bit of sludge on them. In fact the cam was so clean, it had a little rust spot between the lobes. I use Mobil I 15W50 and change the oil every 10,000 miles. The car is used mostly for long cross country trips up to 900 miles per day so this may account for some of the cleanliness. The enging still goes 10,000 between oil changes without adding any oil.
P E H
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2000, 07:47 AM
LarryBible
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robi,

You're not reading everything. This ol' timer put in a rather lengthy reply regarding MMO about a month or so ago. I still keep MMO in my shop. It's great oil for my air tools. That means the can I have is probably five years old, you know one drop every time you use the wrench makes a pint of this stuff go a long way.

I don't know and have never researched MMO, but it seems like it is ATF and some sort of solvent, maybe even a sophisticated one like kerosene.

Have a great day,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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