Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-23-2003, 05:13 PM
jsails46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Engine Shut Down on my '87 300E

Last week a friend and I took a drive out to Roslyn Harbor Long Island, about 35 miles away. On the way back before coming to a complete stop at a traffic light, all my idiot lights came on and I realized the engine had shut off. I shifted to neutral and turned the key, the car restarted with no problem and we continued on our way, back to the city. The next day, I gassed up at a mobil w/ the usual 93 octane, came to a halt at a stop sign and the engine quit again (no sputtering or knocking)just a complete shutoff without warning. I again restarted (this time after a couple of tries) and drove across the Manhattan Bridge. I continued on a couple of blocks and again the engine shutoff. (this time it would restart only after about a 5 minute rest)I then drove another couple of blocks and it shutoff again. This time I noticed a little condensation at the bottom of the windshield so I added a little water. I drove all over Manhattan until the engine was hot and the problem seemed to be corrected. The next day the car was very difficult to start, but when it did it purred like a kitten (as always) and then promptly shutoff, without restarting at all.
would anyone know if this is electrical or mechanical or what could cause this problem....
Thanks jsails46
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-24-2003, 11:07 AM
csnow's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,127
"Classic" signs of fuel pump failure.

Could be the pump(s) or the relay.
Smells like a pump.
Don't wait until you are stranded.

This is how I spent my 'quality time' this past weekend.

Hint:
Take the plastic splash shield off right away. If a pump seizes (after dark, in the rain), you may be able to revive it temporarily by striking it with something. Easy enough, but the shield gets in the way! Pack a tarp to lye on, a pair of gloves, and carry a flashlight.
__________________
1986 300E 5-Speed 240k mi.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2003, 10:52 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 5,316
Also a classic sign of a failing idle air valve, or one of the components in the "failure chain" telling the computer to shut the valve down. Possible culprits are the decel switch or the throttle position switch or the air flow sensor.

If you are not intimately familiar with this problem, best take the car to a good shop because this problem can drive you crazy.
__________________
Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2003, 02:34 AM
jsails46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Faulty Relay?

What about the Fuel Pump Relay? I read (on some other site) a fellows almost identical problem was traced to a faulty Fuel Pump Relay. Is this likley?


Thanks again,

jsails46
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2003, 09:53 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Joliet Illinois
Posts: 309
Chuck is right about the stalling problem driving you crazy. I have the same exact problem on my '88 260e and recently replaced the airflow sensor pot. The car ran fine for a couple weeks then one night started stalling again. Every time I would come to a stop the lights came on the dash and I had to restart it. Besides the intermittent stalling, the car runs and idles smooth as silk.

I cleaned the idle control valve and tested the decel switch (through about 100 cycles) and both seem to be okay.I had ruled out the fuel pump and pump relay as the cause because the problem only occurs when at idle or coming to a stop - never while driving. I would think a fuel pump problem could occur at any speed. Or am I wrong?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-25-2003, 10:25 AM
pesuazo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Near Raleigh, NC
Posts: 580
From Steve Brotherton article:
A failing OVP will cause stalling.
Read his "Evaluating ........" article in the DIY section.
Random stalling may be caused by many things, but failing OVP is a major one.
__________________
1999 Porsche 996 Carrera Convertible
1994 420E - SOLD
1986 300E - SOLD, what a car
609 Certified
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-25-2003, 11:05 AM
csnow's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,127
I did not mean to imply that this could ONLY be a fuel problem, just that the symptoms match well.

Certainly could be the relay.
You can jump terminals 7 & 8 at the relay connector, then feel the pump(s) to see if they operate.

The difficulty is that you would need to catch it in a failure state for this to be meaningful.

Is it starting now, or does it continue to be intermittent?
__________________
1986 300E 5-Speed 240k mi.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-25-2003, 06:52 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 5,316
Normally a failing OVP provides a clue by turning on the ABS light on the dash. But it is smart to replace it on principle because sooner or later it will fail.
__________________
Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-26-2003, 12:17 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Joliet Illinois
Posts: 309
Maybe was the OVP relay

The day after I had the stalling problem I swapped OVP relays with my wife's "92 300e and my car has not stalled since. Maybe it was the OVP relay. I was not getting an ABS light or any other symptoms and my wife's car is still running fine with my old OVP (I was really hoping it would stall so I would know the problem for sure). Maybe the OVP is bad and her car is just more tolerant.

John
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-26-2003, 12:40 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 5,316
Hence the maddening aspect of this problem ...

My car stalled and the ABS light came on. I barely made it to the restaurant, where we were celebrating my wife's birthday. When we came out, it went into limp-home mode with a high idle. Got home, replaced the OVP relay. ABS light went out and stalling problem got better for a couple of days. Then back to same old tricks.
__________________
Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-26-2003, 09:18 PM
jsails46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Unhappy

I heard from my MB service advisor, they (MB) found that the Overload Protection Relay was the real culprit. That along wth the diagnostics and some other egine adjustments now has my car ready for pick up.... after I settle the matter of the bill $545.33.

If I have no further unexpected problems this year, it will be worth the cost.


jsails46
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2003, 12:27 AM
The Benzman
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC - Queens
Posts: 28
Cutting out problems

My general advice for problems of this nature on older cars (15 years/100k miles or more)

Change the Dist cap, Overload Protection relay, voltage regulator on alternator and A/c relay (and keep changing them every 15 years)

Total cost around $200. Peace of mind? Invaluable! If you still need diagnostics after this, you're pretty unlucky!

BTW the ABS light on the dash is often a classic case of low voltage, (lazy diode/bad regulator in Alternator)

Vivian
__________________
1939 170 - till I was 3, still turns heads
1989 300TE - daily driver has 263k
1987 300E - purrs happily with 120k
1983 300SD - keeps my friend happy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2003, 12:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Joliet Illinois
Posts: 309
Thanks

Jsails, thanks for the follow-up post. I guess after 15 years I should break down and get a new OVP relay.

John
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page