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  #76  
Old 05-20-2004, 09:28 PM
A. Rosich's Avatar
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I was really glad to see Mr. JimF response on the previous page. I deeply admire his site about his C 140 and I believe I love my S 500 L as much as he loves his S 500 Coupe. Everything in my V140 works perfectly, and as I said it before a thousand times, there is NO OTHER CAR on the road that can match the driving feeling a 140 provides.

To deepen the thought, I would like to include a commentary from CAR magazine (one of the most respected car magazines there are) about the W140:


"Mercedes-Benz is the car maker that has striven more than any other to construct the world’s best car. Time and time again in its 100-year history, these efforts have been met with resounding success. Its current champion, the S-Class (1991-1998 / S280-S600), is the definitive expression of automotive perfection, and not merely for its unrivalled on-road presence. It is this car’s unstinting commitment to thoroughness, the completeness of its conception and the sheer scope of its competence that justify its reputation as the most sophisticated car the world has ever seen.

Yet the most astonishing thing about this Mercedes is that for all its formality, for all its size, it is as deft and as nimble as a competition-bred sports car. It plays the entertainer as well as it plays the faithful retainer – an ability that never fails to amaze the unwary. Equally astonishing is its detailing: the double glazing, the electrically assisted closure of the doors and boot, the modest flap that emerges from the boot-lid to aid your opening it. But all this is merely the outward evidence of the completeness of the car’s inner being. It is engineered for almost every conceivable circumstance, whether it be cornering, cruising, or even crashing.

It is also quick, and dead quiet. It will pacify its driver and cradle its passengers in luxury the lap of which they will never have experienced before. Effortless high-speed cruising is – in this car more than any other – conducted in the sepulchral space of the most opulent drawing room.

The S-Class reeks of quality –quality of every kind, a quality that runs to the very core of its soul."

[Taken literally from an article printed on CAR magazine, July 1994, page No. 139]

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  #77  
Old 05-21-2004, 12:37 AM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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with those wonderful words . . .

the lights should fade to black . . .
que orchestra . . .
run credits . .
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  #78  
Old 05-21-2004, 11:12 PM
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Damn.....and I thought I had some good quotes about the 140! But, what sums it up best is: "The S-Class reeks of quality –quality of every kind, a quality that runs to the very core of its soul." If you own one, then appreciate what you have....it isn't about to be replicated in the near future....if ever.
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  #79  
Old 05-22-2004, 02:51 AM
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i think that with my stable that i am entitled to air my views about my 1997 c140.

1. at that stage in the game, how was it that benz failed to provide a one button push open-close for the sunroof?

2. have you ever tried backing one of these beasts? it has serious blindspots. why couldn't benz have thought to do what toyota offered, automatically turn down side mirrors to facilitate backing.

3. the remote entry key. why line of site and only within a few feet? and why such a large item? i like my old 126, 124 keys better. hardly showed up in my pocket.

4. tires. you know, the odd size that benz selected means that you don't have much choice unless you go to 17 inch wheels. which just don't look right. do they?

5. no question that my c140 is quieter than my c126. with the windows and sunroof closed. but with the windows closed and the sunroof open, my 560sec is quiter than my s500c. benz failed to provide enough of a baffle for the c140 sunroof.

6. rear view freaking mirror. how could any manufacturer fit such a bit of flimsy junk and than bail out of warranting it, offering a replacement for it?

in fact, it is this mirror and the benz orphaning of it that persuaded me that the japanese were going to eat the residents of unterturkheim for breakfast eventually. death to jurgen schremmp[sic].

7. trunk. candidly, my 126's have more room and are easier to load and unload.

8. i do love the engine of the c140. i do love the more aerodynamic body. it is so much slipperier. imagine so much more hp with so much better fuel economy.

9. on the other hand, the car has so many blind spots that it is much more mysterious to place in traffic at speed as contrasted with my c126, w126, 124cab.

10. also, what are the strange clicking/fastening noises that i continue to encounter when driving this car? i think it involves the seat locking mechanism. and that intrigues me. do the seatbacks fail to be secured until certain speeds are attained?

11. windshield wiper speeds. why couldn't benz have offered more potentiometer control, here? in houston we often get light drizzle and the benz wipers cannot be retarded enought to prevent smearing the windshield. for a car of this price and claims to superiority?

12. and in another important respect, it offers no improvement over the others in my fleet. why hasn't benz been able to build a car that doesn't fog the windshield in times of high ambient humidity?

only cars that i have ever driven that fog the windshield in houston. after all these years, why does this failing persist?

well, i find these debilities unpardonable for such expensive vehicles.

as much as i have enjoyed benzes, as i drive the japanes stuff, i am beginning to conclude that benz was very lazy, in an engineering sense, for many years.

provokes me to ask the question, was anyone in sindelfingen driving these cars?

difficult for me to think so. appears to me as if benz became GM.

so sad.
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  #80  
Old 05-22-2004, 05:08 PM
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It will happen, folks. Look back in the early archives of this site. EVERYBODY disliked the W140(even some hated the '86-'91 W126).

When you buy a W220, you will be saying how superior it is/was to the W140.

Blah...This is all too predictable.
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  #81  
Old 05-22-2004, 05:57 PM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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Well A C, here's some answers. .

1) because most of the time you want to control how far it's open.
2) my '94 has the backup antennas and I have no problem.
3) mine works from 10' or so even in my pocket
4) 235x65x16; that's a standard size???
5) hard to believe that's a lot of difference when both are open.
6) can be fixed for 10cents worth of JB Weld. I've fixed all that were broken that way. And it's usually a person that isn't aware of the motorized mirror that janks and breaks it. Mine lasted 10 years until it was broken.
7) could be but my trunk is not small by any standards.
8) hooray!
9) all big cars have blind spots: buy two (2) blind spot mirrors and attach them to both sides. You'll love it!
10) gear teeth are broken most likely; too many McBurgers!
11) if the wipers smear the windshield they need to be changed.
12) that's a dumb comment: if your AC is working it will NOT fog.

Well, other than you like to complain, the car is still great!
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  #82  
Old 05-22-2004, 07:21 PM
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10) also oil / lube the seat back folding mechanism...
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  #83  
Old 05-22-2004, 09:52 PM
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well, jim, i appreciate your passion in the defense of this exercise in "less than perfected" design. but let me reply this way...

i also care to note that my c140 was manufactured in 10/96. by that time, benz should have corrected certain deficiencies[imo].

so, responding...

1. i have been owning and driving benzes since 1973. with rare exception, i have never needed to control the degree of opening of the sunroofs in my vehicles. i always want them either all the way open or all the way closed.

it seems to me that jaguar figured out your needs, though...you can punch the button once when closed and it will fully open. if when fully open, it will then fully close. or you can hold the button and regulate the degree of openness.

it occurs to me that if benz could furnish me windows that i could instantly open or close all the way - and there is a safety issue there - then they could have provided a sunroof offering the same ease of use.

do you really disagree with that assessment?

2. well, perhaps you make my case, here. by 10/96 those spotting devices were eliminated. my c140 has parktronic. i can assure you, it is a very unpredictable technology on this car..not to be relied upon.

3. well that is amazing. perhaps your 94 had a rf device. in 10/96 it was an infrared device. it demands line of sight, almost perfectly in line with the receiver, and i find within 5'. i contrast that with my 96 gmc yukon that used an rf device. could be in my pocket and within 25'.

also, i think that even benz found it necessary to discontinue the infrared devices.

4. my 97 was outfitted with 235/60X16's. just not many performance tires available in that size. and 235/65X16 - even worse.

in fact, the 235/60X16 spec was almost exclusively benz and its oem supplier, michelin. and those were the worst tires that i have ever operated.

5. side windows open on my 560sel, 560sec cannot be done at speed comfortably. but sunroof open is not too bad at speed[+55].

c140 is not too bad at speed with side window and sunroof open, but with sunroof only. too punishing. benz did not furnish as much of a deflector as they furnished with the 126's. you can check that out.

6. 97's did not have motorized internal rearview mirrors. and though the mirror looks the same as the motorized mirror, and costs the same[approx 1 grand], they go floppy for no reason.

personally i consider this a safety issue. imagine a car manufacturer that will not build a car with mirrors that will hold a position...and then duck their warranty obligation by calling that a trim item.

a sleazy business practice in my book.

and what is worse, refrains from offering a replacement mirror as simple and as solid as those in my 6.9, 560's, e320cab.

so, one of the world's most expensive cars gets a mirror that is junk. and if you think i have that wrong, check the archives of this site.

7. still, my 1987 560sec has a bigger trunk. even more importanly, it is easier to load and unload.

8. even a blind pig finds an acorn.

9. i have these other big benzes. none of them have the same degree of blindspots.

i often think that bruno sacco was not as involved in the c140 as he was invoved in the c126.

10. well, how do i respond to that insult? i am 6'2". weigh 175lbs. the po, who only put 20,000 miles on the car in 6 years, was in her '60's. she was 5'2" and could not have weighed 120lbs. as you might deduce, she rarely drove the car.

shortly after i purchased the vehicle, which was starmarked by the san antonio dealer, the seat backs became immovable. thinking that would be a warrantied fix, i took it to a benz dealer. well, i learned the hard way that seats are trim items[no covered by starmark]. the dealer, less than 60 days ago, performed some magic on the seat cabling. it is true, that now the seat backs can be moved, but while driving, i hear all kinds of clicking and solenoid-sounding noises being emitted from under the seats while driving.

should i take this back to the dealer, do you think? you don't think it normal?

11. let's see. 60 days ago, dealer replaced the wiper blades. so, they are virtually new.

and this car was out of the sun until several weeks ago. so, the blades have to be considered virginal. and in fact, my examination, conducted with my indy garageman, has concluded that the blades are virtually new and without defect.

anyhow, within the last several weeks, here in the houston metro area, we have had lots of rainy weather. from 4"/hour downpours to light drizzle. it is in the light drizzle conditions that i find the c140 to be inadequate to the task. the wipers just will not slow enough. they have to be turned off. then turned on.

contrast this with my yukon...a much greater range of wiper speed adjustment.

and let's see, yukon: $35k when new in may 1996.

c140 in december 1996: $90k+

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

12. i have complained about this situation to benz for 30 years. for whatever reason, those crazy germans refuse to understand the high ambient humidity conditions in certain areas.

the problem is that benz continues to incorporate a climate control system that allows for cold air to blow onto the windshield. FROM THE TOP DASH VENTS.

and for reasons unbeknownst to me, there seems to be no way to stop that.

so, no matter what version benz i drive, cold air is still being allowed to hit the windshield and fog it.

i have no other vehicles in my stable that have ever had this problem. i consider it an uniquely benz bit of bull****.

the vp-service at my benz dealer and the benz zone rep always told me that it was just a benz idiosyncracy. when i complained about it involving the 126's, 124's.

when you get to the 140, the issue becomes ignored. as i see it, they know the problem persists, but they want to pretend that it doesn't. after all, how could one be the world's premier car manufacturer and allow this problem to persist?

and once again, i consider this failing a safety issue. when this cold air control deficiency obscures my forward vision, i think benz has compromised my safety.

because they know of the problem and they know the fix.

i drive toyotas, jags, hondas, etc etc. the only cars i have ever driven[owned] that exhibit this "fogging" problem are my benzes.


and these are really not complaints, jim. i am an industrial designer. and a manufacturer.

my issue is the dereliction that allowed these deficiencies to occur in the first place. and then persist.

sic semper tyrannis
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  #84  
Old 05-23-2004, 09:45 AM
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I try not to get into any argument but....

for (12) I can say albert is right. Out here where I am at, it is very humid. When the A/C is on, in AUTO mode, cold air will goto the top vent. These cold air will fog up the windscreen and create condensation at the "outside" of the windscreen. You have to turn on the wipers to clear those. I have my A/C pointing to the floor, the feet, all the time to avoid this.

As for (10), guydewdney, how do we oil/lube them? its all hidden from us isn't it?
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  #85  
Old 05-23-2004, 10:24 AM
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My 190E's wipers smear no matter how new the wipers. I think I need a new windscreen?
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  #86  
Old 05-23-2004, 11:06 AM
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A couple of issues I think need to be addressed here

Albert.....


if you hate the C140 why do you have it?

if you needed a bigger truck why did you buy a sedan rather than a coupe...as for loading...as I recall the 126 does not open to near the bumper area as the 140 does..making you have to lift items higher?


you made no mention here that your 126 does not have the truck and door closing devices .. a keyless entry or a decent stereo..or mutiple airbags..or any traction safety features(ESP.ETS)
is that worth anything?

As for the michelins I think they are great tires..and I have seen 17's on the body style that you have and they look great...as I recall Benz has some factory wheels that work well on the C140
You should inquire at your dealer about those

as for the key...I think the smartkey(which you may have) is the most theft resistant available now...and as I recall the swithblade key of the older models was rated #2 theft resistant

as for the 90K price in 1996...look at the price of the 560SEC when new.....very close(when inflation is factored in)

as I recall a 560SEC was about 82K in 1991...and look at the HP and mileage ratings of the two cars...same gas mileage and more HP for the new car....so I think some headway was made there


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  #87  
Old 05-23-2004, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turnne1
A couple of issues I think need to be addressed here

Albert.....


if you hate the C140 why do you have it?

if you needed a bigger truck why did you buy a sedan rather than a coupe...as for loading...as I recall the 126 does not open to near the bumper area as the 140 does..making you have to lift items higher?


you made no mention here that your 126 does not have the truck and door closing devices .. a keyless entry or a decent stereo..or mutiple airbags..or any traction safety features(ESP.ETS)
is that worth anything?

As for the michelins I think they are great tires..and I have seen 17's on the body style that you have and they look great...as I recall Benz has some factory wheels that work well on the C140
You should inquire at your dealer about those

as for the key...I think the smartkey(which you may have) is the most theft resistant available now...and as I recall the swithblade key of the older models was rated #2 theft resistant

as for the 90K price in 1996...look at the price of the 560SEC when new.....very close(when inflation is factored in)

as I recall a 560SEC was about 82K in 1991...and look at the HP and mileage ratings of the two cars...same gas mileage and more HP for the new car....so I think some headway was made there


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio
I think you misunderstood what Mr. Champion was saying. He is not saying that c140's are bad, but compared to c126 they're not BETTER.
You said that he should buy a sedan if the trunk is too small, but he's comparing the trunks of 2 coupes, a c126 and c140. His complaint that to a c126, the c140 is smaller.

Now.. I never drove in a c140, but I have seen them several times. I saw a black one and a gold/champagne colored one... and they are really nice looking cars. However, I see the c126 as more "handsome" looking.. where as the c140 as more feminine.
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  #88  
Old 05-23-2004, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Now.. I never drove in a c140, but I have seen them several times. I saw a black one and a gold/champagne colored one... and they are really nice looking cars. However, I see the c126 as more "handsome" looking.. where as the c140 as more feminine

Drive one...preferably for an extended period and I think you will be of a different opinion

Once you get accustomed to the many features of the 140 its hard to change

There is another thread in the forum where listers are saying after driving the 140 for several years they can't find another car where they don't feel they are compromising...I would agree


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
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  #89  
Old 05-23-2004, 07:24 PM
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After a W140 I'm sure a W220 wouldn't be a compromise is so theres always Rolls. I have spent time in or driven, W126 300SDL, W140 S600, W220 S430. I can say there all great cars, and the W140 is a much more modern car than my SDL. The W220 now is just awsome. I'd have to say the jump from a W140 to a W220 is less of a change than a W126 to a W140. Personaly I like them all and will move up threw them as I can afford to. If you want to replace your W140 test drive a new S600.
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  #90  
Old 05-24-2004, 04:13 AM
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Sorry to jump on the issue so late, but I was out at the beach for the weekend. I would like to address some of the issues raised by Mr. Camphion, although Mr. JimF has already focused, IMHO, correctly in most of them:

1/ M.B. refused to installed an automatic open/close feature on its sunroofs for many years as a safety precaution. They were quite hard headed about this issue until they gave up on the W220s.

2/ The parktronic feature on my S 500 L works perfectly and has never failed me. I rely on it completely and I has never scratched any part on my car.

3/ Again, the distance of the infrared key was a hard headed safety issue. M-B refused to allow a great distance of operation because the driver could be unware of a child or someone else in the way of a window while operating the comfort closing feature.

4/ to 10/ no specific comment...

11/ My S 500 L is equipped with the automatic rain sensor and it works wonderful. You just turn it on and the speed varies specifically to the amount of water the windshield receives. I have timed lapses of ten minutes and over between wipes on very light drizzle. Could you ask for more???

12/ Now this is a very funny issue. I have an E 320 T (S124, 1995) with the very expensive optional fully automatic A/C that is installed as standard in the U.S. (the stupid pushbuttom nightmare). It has NEVER supplied cold air through the defrost vents on the windshield while on "auto". The S 500 L did it and it tended to create a very annoying condensation on the outside of the windshield (remember that I live in Costa Rica, fully tropical HUMID like hell climate).

Took to car to my A/C specialist (which is the guy who provides special consults to the dealer here when they cannot figure out something) and he said that the only Benz that does that as standard from the factory is the G-series (G 500). That the W140, as the W124 and all others, shouldn't do that.

He took the car for two days and returned completely fixed. Never had any problem with cold air blowing through the windshield vents again while in the "auto" mode. He says that this is a very common problem and is also very easy to fix, although, he refused to provide me with an specific answer on how to do it when I asked him.

On the safety issues that created your complaints, I agree with you, sometimes M-B can be quite unsual about some issues. One good example is the left-hand outside rearview mirror on W124s, which was manually adjusted until late 1993 (they proclaimed the electric adjustment was not necessary since the mirror was just besides the driver).

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