1961 300d Adenauer - thinking of buying... ANY advice appreciated

[85MB300D]

This poor thing is in need of serious restoration, but it runs and drives (although I have not seen it run and drive yet, but I have seen the car)

Any advice would be appreciated.

To buy or not to buy???

Thanks!

[Mike D]

Hmm, it "runs and drives" but you haven't seen it run or drive? No brainer. Unless you have lots of money to throw away and unlimited time, don't bother. It'd have to be in almost perfect shape to even consider messing with.

[Larry Delor]

Might as well buy a boat. There's another hole you throw money into.

[300SDog]

I think 1961 was maybe last year of the 300d Adenauer. Taken for part per part, there's probly no finer crafted MB ever made. Knew somebody who had one equiped with steel anti-land mine floorboards underneath, former embassy car that weighed couple of tons. Amazing coachwork inside with lots of wood furniture and impeccable fixtures, dashboard was work of art. Under the hood was carbureted inline 6cyl massively overbuilt. Thumb screws for the valve cover and everything appeared double the size of what you'd find in normal cars.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by 85MB300D

This poor thing is in need of serious restoration, but it runs and drives (although I have not seen it run and drive yet, but I have seen the car)

Any advice would be appreciated.

To buy or not to buy???

Thanks!

Answer this question:

How do you feel about a $500 distributor cap?

Extropolate this to the rest of the car....

Jim

[cth350]

I just picked up a pair "inexpensively". One needs a steering column, gas tank and a driveshaft.

Found a guy who wanted to sell me the those three parts for about 3 grand. That was more than I paid for the car.

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap mercedes. Especially a rare, cheap mercedes that needs major restoration.

-CTH

[Larry Delor]

A friend of mine has a earlier Adenauer (early fifties). He was constantly amazed at the parts prices. One day he shows me a intake valve, and he asks "guess how much?" Turns out, the valve itself was $127 - that was 5 or 6 years ago.

[300SDog]

Sounds like everybody's calling em the ultimate white elephant of the fleet.... but c'mon gotta be no finer project car for spending thousands of hours fiddling with than the Adenauer. Used to be somebody here on the forum with 6 of em located at Maryland i think. And somebody else was cookin up an Adenauer/Airstream trailer rig awhile ago.

Y'all just caint judge owning and operating that kinda vehicle by normal standards, says me. And even if the Adenauer owner spends thousands of hours messin with the car and spends thousands of dollars tracking down parts halfway around the world, yet driving the vehicle just 500 miles per year - its still gonna be worth it.

[ctaylor738]

I you want a cheap tinker, buy any 140 sedan or coupe. Infinite opportunities to fix things.

[t walgamuth]

Theyre pretty cool, but you dont want to buy a fixer upper. The rarity of the parts makes the cost of them prohibitive.

I was considering one a few years back and found that there were quite a few around in decent condition for not that much money.....so if you want one find a good complete one with minor needs and buy that.

Good luck.

Tom W

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by 300SDog

Sounds like everybody's calling em the ultimate white elephant of the fleet.... but c'mon gotta be no finer project car for spending thousands of hours fiddling with than the Adenauer. Used to be somebody here on the forum with 6 of em located at Maryland i think. And somebody else was cookin up an Adenauer/Airstream trailer rig awhile ago.

Y'all just caint judge owning and operating that kinda vehicle by normal standards, says me. And even if the Adenauer owner spends thousands of hours messin with the car and spends thousands of dollars tracking down parts halfway around the world, yet driving the vehicle just 500 miles per year - its still gonna be worth it.

You've got to be kidding.
Only if your time has negative value......

I have wheel time behind these gobblers, and I'm not about to spend MY time and money on one.... Now a 300S or 300Sc, or even a 300 cab... well, maybe.

Jim

[pj67coll]

Might want to check out these two sites.

http://www.3-0-0.org

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stuartlamb/MB300/mb300ind.htm

The second site in particular is interesting from a restoration point of view. Especially in terms of parts costs even if it's a decade old.

- Peter.

[300SDog]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

You've got to be kidding.... Now a 300S or 300Sc, or even a 300 cab... well, maybe.

Actually this says more about you than it does about restoring VMB's.

At/near basic level say $1999 or less initial entry fee, y'all be pressed to find a more enjoyable old world project car than the fatbod 300d unless yer lucky enough to git yer hands on Pontoon that aint rusted to smitherines, no such problems with the 300d that carries more German steel than the English channel. Otherwise coupes, cabrios? Yeah sure if ye got $10k kickin around just to git ye started.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by 300SDog

Actually this says more about you than it does about restoring VMB's.

At/near basic level say $1999 or less initial entry fee, y'all be pressed to find a more enjoyable old world project car than the fatbod 300d unless yer lucky enough to git yer hands on Pontoon that aint rusted to smitherines, no such problems with the 300d that carries more German steel than the English channel. Otherwise coupes, cabrios? Yeah sure if ye got $10k kickin around just to git ye started.

Huh? What's a VMB?

As W. C. Fields said: "Just because I like to look at elephants, doesn't mean I'd want to own one.".

My comments are based upon 35 years of owning Mercedes, performing significant overhauls/amateur restoration on a number of Mercedes, and specific experience from the early seventies on, in and around these very cars we are discussing.

My point in the above quote that "says a lot about me" is this:

Any 300, whether it is an a, b, c, or d version, is not a wise purchase when it needs a complete restoration. I don't care what value (if any) you place on your time, and believe me, as you get older, it becomes increasingly valuable both in terms of what you have remaining, and what remuneration you can get for it, you will never, ever, even come close to making a profit on a car like this. Hell, you'll be so upside down in a project like this one, you'll never dig your way out. The cost of interior restoration for wood and leather alone will likely approach the completed value of the car. Priced a Becker Mexico for a 300 lately? How about a tail light lens? Bumper trim? Have you ever had parts rechromed? If you can even find shop to do it anymore.... As far as rust.... 300 bodies do indeed rust, even in the southwest. And $10k? You'd better have at least that much lying around AFTER you get the $2k car, if you expect to actually have a reliable car to run around in. Then get prepared to double your money on cosmetic issues. Far better off buying a decent looking, running 300 for the money you'll end up sinking into the cheap one.

It's not that I do not enjoy the cars, they are indeed a work of art. I've had many opportunities over the decades to buy them, but the numbers just do not work out. And, no, I'm not looking to profit every car I buy. I don't mind if they end up costing something, as long as I can get some use out of them and enjoy them. But I haven't met a cheap 300 yet, that would not have had me buried alive in cost alone to get it into good running condition and decent appearing condition.

A 300d is not to be confused with a 300SD.

So, as I said, in order for a project like this to make sense, you need to start with a car that will recover the cost of fixing it up. Hence my list of cars that would offer the potential of at least coming close to a positive ROI.

But buy a junker sedan and fix it up?
That's not a smart use of time, talent or money.

I've BTDT, and I am wiser and perhaps more cynical for the experience.

Jim

[todds]

This may be sacrilege but, how about using an m130 or something in it instead of the big alloy six?

For a car in need of a total restoration beyond any financial sense, why keep it original? If it's just going to die in a field or shed anyway, might as well put it to some kind of use if you've got the ability.

Maybe a sensible and respectful re-telling of the Adenauer is more of a hedged bet. Although, granted, it'd be more or less worthless when finished to anyone but the owner unless done to an impeccable (again $$$) standard. Even then, an ROI of any kind is kinda moot. Hell, with this hobby an ROI is more of a side effect half the time anyway.

I can definitely see the allure of such a car, but personally, I'd take Jim's advice and pass. Perhaps someday some wealthy fella could bring a car like that back to glory, although that is kind of a sad notion too. Cars-as-art can easily border on obscene.