1963 190c disc brake conversion

[Jcrane06]

Hey Guys, I just recently bought a 1963 Mercedes 190 c with a manual 4 speed on the column. I absolutely love the car. It has almost everything original still in it. As you know the drum brakes aren't that great and I would like to convert them to front disc brakes atleast. Was hoping some of you can point me in the right direction. I can do all the work myself just need the knowledge of what fits and what kind of fits. I have all the tools to make new steel brake lines and bend them. I also have a tig welder and cutters and what not at my shop to so fab work is not a problem. Thank you in advanced gentleman. Ill have pics of the car up soon.

[686point3]

Originally Posted by Jcrane06

Hey Guys, I just recently bought a 1963 Mercedes 190 c with a manual 4 speed on the column. I absolutely love the car. It has almost everything original still in it. As you know the drum brakes aren't that great and I would like to convert them to front disc brakes atleast. Was hoping some of you can point me in the right direction. I can do all the work myself just need the knowledge of what fits and what kind of fits. I have all the tools to make new steel brake lines and bend them. I also have a tig welder and cutters and what not at my shop to so fab work is not a problem. Thank you in advanced gentleman. Ill have pics of the car up soon.

Hi

I am in Southern CA too, and just saw this post of yours.
Maybe I can help ?

Alex
North L.A. County

[Idle]

The 220Se had disc brakes. My interchange book only goes back to 1965 but it shows any 250S or SE had the same brakes up until about 1971. The chassis brake number is 075175 so anything lower than that should fit.

The big change out will be the steering knuckle, or spindle, and it shows to have changed in 1968 so under that year you should be good. The interchange manual shows a different number for disc spindles and drum spindles.

And don't forget to pick up the rear dust guards when you get the spindles.

I would not rush right out and start looking based on this info. You might want to wait until someone else who has done this weighs in since the interchange manual is not perfect.

[Jcrane06]

Idle can you put a link to your info? Im new to this whole thread thing. And 686point3 if you have any info i would appreciate it. Or parts or anything of the sort. Before i swap motor and transmission on this id like to get the brakes done. Then an airbag suspension setup.

[KCM]

Congrats on your new purchase. Being your car is so original (and you probably want to keep it that way as much as possible), here is the route I would go if it were mine.

1963 was the year Mercedes made the change to front disc brakes on the W110 chassis: early year models were drum and late year were disc. So yours must be an early '63. This means the factory parts are out there that will bolt right on to your car to add the factory disc brakes. If you look on the engine, you will see a cover where the vacuum pump would bolt on, and I believe the cam is inside that the pump rides on (you would need to remove the cover to verify). So what you could do is check out the junk yards (which I've heard California has a bunch) for cars that have the power front discs and get the parts needed, or buy a salvage car and rob the parts from it. The main items you would need are the vacuum pump and lines, brake booster and master cylinder, and front spindle assemblies with the discs and calipers. You shouldn't need the A-arms as I think they are the same, but wouldn't hurt to get those too. Might also need the brake linkage at the pedal. If you get all these parts, then it should be pretty much a bolt-on job.

As for which cars will fit, all W110 cars from 1963 to 1968 will fit. W111 body parts should also fit as they share a lot of suspension parts. I highly recommend you get a free subscription to the official Mercedes-Benz parts catalog (EPC). There you can look up your specific car and get all the part numbers you need. Then there is a parts search feature where you can search using the part number and no vehicle model data to backward search as to which models the parts fit. If you do some research up front, you will know exactly what cars you need to look for to get the parts for your model.

EPC-net Online - Subscription Step 1 of 3

Good luck.

[KCM]

Originally Posted by Jcrane06

Then an airbag suspension setup.

I guess I'm not sure where you are going with the car as you were talking about how original it is, but these cars actually ride and drive pretty nice with the stock suspension. Also, a motor and transmission swap is a big job. You will definitely have a lot more in the car than it will be worth, and a lot of time.

I'd say do the brake upgrade first so you can drive it, then see if you want to do the high dollar stuff.

[Jcrane06]

thanks for the info KCM. I got this car for an absolute screaming deal. I love the body style and look. The i have a fairly new lexus all aluminum 4.0 v8 and tranny i got from a friend for doing some work for him. So yeah ill be going that route with it. Its going to be a fun daily driver for me. But my plan is brakes first then suspension. Then ill work on the swap. Not thinking about resale. I plan on keeping and driving it for a very very long time. Wouldnt dream of selling it. So if i sell any of the original parts ill let you guys know. Ill eventually sell the complete dash. Everything works besides the clock. The engine and trans ill pull out complete and the column with column shift incase some one wants it.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

If it's not a diesel, I don't think you'll need the vacuum pump. But retrofitting a disc setup from another model could get complicated.
Early 220 Fintails with all-drum or front discs used a single circuit brake master cylinder with a remote power-assist servo mounted next to the radiator. The drums require a residual-pressure valve in the master cylinder but discs don't. So at minimum, you'll need to change your master cylinder to the one without the residual-pressure valve and probably add the valve in the line to the rear drums. Keep in mind the Fintail single-circuit front-disc setup was only used a couple years, so parts for that may be hard to find.
Beginning in late '63 or '64 they switched to a dual circuit front-disc system, with integral vacuum-booster mounted on the firewall. Those parts would be easier to find but the master cylinder, plumbing, pedals & related brackets will need changing.
If your car is a stick-shift, converting to the later braking system may mean converting some of your clutch hydraulics as that vacuum booster will occupy the space where your existing firewall-mounted clutch master is located.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[willbhere4u]

I swapped the brakes off a 1963 220SE with the 3 piston front calipers on to my 1962 190c They where a huge improvement I had to switch out the whole spindles with the backing plates and all But i was also able to replace the king pins and installed new rotors and pads and calipers with new or refurbished parts. I probably spent around $800 in parts including buying the used spindles and all the new parts. The problem I have now is that The single reservoir non power servo brake master cylinder is bad and its unobtainaum also I don't want to swap to a power brake servo set up because I would have to replace the pedal set to relocate the clutch master cylinder and battery. The original master was 23.81mm and the pedal was stiff but worked well. I found a 1971 ATE style master cylinder from a VW Bus that is 22mm I am hoping it will make the brake pedal a little less stiff and its a dual reservoir I am working on modifying it to to fit in place of the original. I am hoping with a little work it will fit in and give me the security of a dual circuit brake system and a better pedal feel.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by KCM

If you look on the engine, you will see a cover where the vacuum pump would bolt on,

Car is gas, not diesel, so no vacuum pump needed.

Originally Posted by KCM

So what you could do is check out the junk yards (which I've heard California has a bunch) for cars that have the power front discs and get the parts needed,

It used to be able to find fintails at the junkyard. Not anymore. I have found one in the last year and 3 days after it was placed in the yard it was really stripped.

Originally Posted by KCM

I highly recommend you get a free subscription to the official Mercedes-Benz parts catalog (EPC).

Unfortunately EPC is now $75 per year.

My 63 220S has front disk, rear drum. It HAD dunlop front disks which I replaced with new (NAPA rebuild) ATEs. The drums I am living with.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by willbhere4u

I swapped the brakes off a 1963 220SE with the 3 piston front calipers on to my 1962 190c They where a huge improvement I had to switch out the whole spindles with the backing plates and all But i was also able to replace the king pins and installed new rotors and pads and calipers with new or refurbished parts. I probably spent around $800 in parts including buying the used spindles and all the new parts. The problem I have now is that The single reservoir non power servo brake master cylinder is bad and its unobtainaum also I don't want to swap to a power brake servo set up because I would have to replace the pedal set to relocate the clutch master cylinder and battery. The original master was 23.81mm and the pedal was stiff but worked well. I found a 1971 ATE style master cylinder from a VW Bus that is 22mm I am hoping it will make the brake pedal a little less stiff and its a dual reservoir I am working on modifying it to to fit in place of the original. I am hoping with a little work it will fit in and give me the security of a dual circuit brake system and a better pedal feel.

This is something I wish I could've done with my first Benz, a '61 Ponton 180b, many years ago. Many years later, I planned a disc conversion for my '60 Fintail 220S, but rust finished it off before I got around to it.
Hopefully, that VW MC will bolt right up to your firewall.
If that '71 bus had the disc/drum setup, that might be just about perfect.
If you do find you need to go with an even smaller dual MC, some VWs also used a 19.05mm unit.
Note, with non-power brakes, less pedal-effort using a smaller bore MC means increased pedal-travel. Be sure to keep those rear drums closely adjusted.

Happy Motoring, Mark