w108 or w114 for a daily driver?

[peterl]

Hello,

I'm thinking of ditching my '88 BMW 528e for an older MB as my daily driver. what are your feelings on using a w108 or w114 280 as a driver. Some other questions:

How are the gas engines compared to the diesels?
Are they injected or carb'ed?
The w108 seem to be selling for $3-4k and up? Why is such a beautiful car so (relatively) inexpensive?
Are there any pros or cons of a w114 over a w108?
How is part availablilty?

I'm pretty handy with a wrench and I don't mind tinkering!

Thank you,

Peter

W108's were available with either carbs or fuel injection, depending on the model:

CARB MODELS: 250S, 280S

FUEL INJECTED: 250SE, 280SE, 280SE 3.5, 280 SE 4.5, 280SEL, 280SEL 3.5, 280SEL 4.5

The giveaway for a fuel injected model is the presence of the letter "E" in the model name.

A relative to the w108 is the w109. This model was essentially the same as the w108 but for the presence of a four-wheel air suspension, and was always sold in the US with fuel injection, and as a long-wheelbase (the "L" on the nameplate) version.

w109: 300SEL, 300SEL 3.5, 300SEL 4.5, 300SEL 6.3.

Why only 4k? Several reasons:

1. Rust protection was not a Mercedes strong suit in the w108 era. There are a lot of rusty/bondoed w108's and w109's around in rust-belt communities.

2. Relatively few people know how to repair them properly. Repairs can be pricy if your tech is from the "keep replacing parts until I stumble into the right repair" school.

3. Even a Mercedes can be used up. The newest w108 was manufactured in late 1972.

4. It's a sedan. Compared to SL's, sedans generally have inferior resale value. The 6.3 is SOMETIMES the exception if it well-maintained and in good cosmetic order.

Very nice cars though. $4k seems at the lower end of the market for this model. Double your budget, and you can find a nice one.
Just don't buy a ragged car with the idea of fully restoring it. You just will not be able to recover the cost of a major restoration at resale time.

[peterl]

Thanks for the info. I figured out the E designation after I posted.

I completely understand about buying low with hopes of fixing it up. I made that mistake once already with a '74 2002!

Peter

[ctaylor738]

You don't say where you drive, but both are ferocious rusters if driven in salt or even regularly in the rain.

The 114's are generally newer in design and can be found in US trim as a 220D, 240D, 300D, 220, 230, 250, 280 sedans, and 250C and 280C coupes. I think that the years were 1967-1976. Four speeds were available in the sedans most years, but the coupes were all automatic.

Generally, they are OK as drivers. Handling and brakes are good and heat and AC work well. They are kind of noisy and have big steering wheels.

I would have to advise generally against the gas cars with the Solex carbs (1973 on), and definitely any with the thermal reactors. The later the year, the crazier the emissions compliance became. The 230 engine is a strange bird and hard to get parts and information on.

The twin-carb M130's in the 250 and 250C have their challenges as well. Gas mileage in the low teens can be expected.

My favorite 114 is the 250CE or 280CE. These were euro models but a few made it to the US.

[Aaron]

I prefer the W108 as a vintage daily driver. I used my '70 280SE every day for two years (save for winter when it's stored) and didn't run into any problems. Only time the car ever let me down was when the fuel pump failed. The new one was $621.50 from MB but all problems were cured once I put it on. I had some hot start issues which led me to believe the pump was on the way out (i.e. not delivering the needed volume of fuel when priming). Anyhow, since I happened across a decent 300SD to use as a daily driver, I've put the 280 away and reserve it's use for nice weather. It's for sale right now, as I'm trying to thin the herd before winter hits. And I just bought a Triumph TR6 which is oh so graciously taking most all my free time away from me. It's no Mercedes, but boy is it fun setting off car alarms on new BMWs and such with those sonorous British exhaust notes!

[240 Ed]

I use my 250s as a daily driver and I love it.
That said, I think the W123 is a better car, definetely a modern car in terms of suspension, safety etc. rides and handles better too.
But I "enjoy" my W108 more, probably due to its character.

Buy something that tugs at you whenever you see it. That's the ticket!

Originally posted by Aaron
...And I just bought a Triumph TR6 which is oh so graciously taking most all my free time away from me. It's no Mercedes, but boy is it fun setting off car alarms on new BMWs and such with those sonorous British exhaust notes!

I always liked the TR4-250-5-6 series. I remember that ANSA exhausts were a favorite with TR6 owners, both for the chromed quad exhaust tips and that rorty sound. My favorite TR was the TR5, combining the TR4 body with IRS and a fuel-injected engine. Shame it was never sold in the U.S.

One wonders how long Triumph would have survived if they engaged in a strategy of continual refinement to the TR6 instead of introducing the car that killed the marque, the TR(ouble)7.

[Mark V]

I've been driving my '69 230 daily for a year and a half. It only let me down when I needed a fuel pump. Parts prices in my neck of the woods are out of line, even in the used and aftermarket. Wish I had the big diesel I don't need the speed but the 230 has trouble getting 3000lbs into motion. I'm a tall guy and getting wider with each year and this car suits in that regard perfectly if it is a consideration for you. Get a car with no rust, like the '02s if theres a bit, theres a lot. Even if you don't see it look for how it might have been covered up. Floors and wheel wells are notorious and thick undercoating can hide the truth. I like mine, it has beautiful lines but I think I'm going to look for something more like the '02 which I always had a ton of fun in.

Mark

[psfred]

I have both, and I drive both (not the 220 D recently, needs a rebuild on a brake caliper).

The W108 is a nicer drive, much larger, more comfortable car. Uses about twice the fuel of hte 220D, but I don't have to worry about getting in anyone's way.....

The W115s are very nice cars if not rusty. Drive at least as well as the W123, the gas ones are thirsty, though -- the 230 is underpowered by modern standards and the 280 is a gas guzzler. Fun, especially the coupe.

I agree, though -- for low maintenance and lower operating costs, a W123 diesel will be hard to beat. Still many around with no rust and not too much milage, parts still readily available, etc. The W108 is getting expensive to get parts for, and you will eventually have serious trouble getting repairs on the mechanical injection. The EFI will eventually get impossible to fix, too (the connector for the brain box is already NA), but you can swap the engine (just heads and fuel distributor) for the K-Jetronic fairly easily.

After all, they are all MBs!

Peter

[Catrinus]

I have a 73 280C (114 coupe) and I use it as a daily driver. I agree with the earlier posting in that it's a) noisy and b) has a big steering wheel. But I really, really like it. It's comfortable, relatively peppy (as compared to, say, a 220D!) and very, very reliable. Mine just crossed 100K miles and I must say it runs pretty much like it's new. One thing that surprised me is how you can buy reasonably-priced parts on the internet (both retail houses and eBay). I thought that MB ONLY had expensive parts -- come to find out that it's the DEALERS who have expensive parts. If you can avoid them and do a little puttering yourself, I think the 114s are a good daily driver. I live where we don't salt the roads so underbody rust isn't a problem.

All things being equal, though, I'd rather drive a 108 with a 6 cyl engine -- they're bigger, more powerful, and just flat-out look better.
Catrinus
Portland, OR

[nathanyork]

I have owned lots of cars and I agree, if you are buying a car to drive everyday, buy one that you love first. Any Benz will be more expensive to drive and maintain than a Chevy, so buy one you won't mind spending the money on. Buy a car that you love to look at and love to drive and you won't be disappointed. I almost bought a 108 with a six for economy and ease of service, but in the end I decided I really wanted a 4.5. I almost bought a 250 C that was beautiful, but in the end I stepped up and bought the car I really wanted. I bought a 2 owner car with an incredible set of service records for 6k. Buy a well maintained one with little if nothing wrong with it. Definately do not try to "fix one up" beyond simple TLC or you will regret it. Good luck, it took me several years to find my dream MB driver, and another couple to convince the owner to sell!

[jas2wa]

I drove a 6-cyl. 280se 108 for 4 years back when I was younger (not that I am old now), and then just bought my 73 280sel 4.5 in March, as my new daily driver- that's how much I loved the first one...

Thirtsy, drafty at times, but damn quick and as stylish as all get-out- whoever mentioned earlier to buy the car you love first- was right- when you glance back at the car as you leave it in a parking lot, most every time, then you've made the right choice.

Never had a lot of experience with the 114, but it is very similar to the 108 chassis, anyhow-

-JAS

[300SDog]

RE: diesels 115/220D,240D; 114/300D...... and others of early '70s.

The "D" models are not for everybody. Many people dislike them on account of their strange noises and idiosyncracies, shakin like crazy at red lights, smokin and burning oil and lacking acceleration.... comically, your wife will hate the car and never be able to drive it. Long trips will literally numb your accelerator leg and beat you up. Gasoline engine mechanics will swear the engine is on brink of death based on misdiagnosis of rattles, smoke and clatter that are typical, healthy diesel characteristics.

You wont find any luxury appointments in diesels either...... none of the amazing coachwork details of the 108s that set them apart from other models of the early '70s.

115 diesels with automatic trannies are hopeless disasters that are practically a chore to drive. Yet stickshift 115 diesels are becoming scarce and deserve to be on "watch list" among vintage fans. MB really blew it by going overboard with automatics for the American market and small engine diesels with automatics are hopeless. Yet maintained in excellent condition, the 4-spd. 220D and 240D in 115 chassis will become tomorrow's highly desirable collector car of this genre.

On the upside, you will get approx. 500 miles on each tank of fuel and you can drive around all day on less than $10.00 of fuel in 3rd world taxi-cab vehicle with surprisingly unique status among auto elite. Maintenance and tune-up amounts to valve adjustment, changing fuel filters and regular oil changes.

For absolute top end performance (say driving Nevada) the 4.5 V-8 in 108 chassis is hard to beat; 6 cyl 250/8 and 280/8 are incredibly smooth and nimble around town; 4 cyl 230/8 behaves less like a truck than diesel versions with comparable economy. If you ever see stickshift 4 cyl gasoline 230/8 - grab it!!

Btw, 108's and 114/115's are entirely different in their handling and suspension components. Basically 108s are alot stiffer and straighter in their feel, whereas 114/115's pivot quicker and are alot softer in their steering. Arguably, MB sedans of the early '70s and late '60s are the finest line of cars that have ever been produced.

According to legend, this era when grills went from vertical to horizontal more closely defines what Mercedes are about than any other period of their history. Only the early '60s when Pontons and Heckflossen shared showroom floors is remotely comparable.

[VFRBoy]

Drove a W108 today with a genuine 26,000mi on the clock. I am in love, negotiations are underway with the wife...

Pete

[vandor]

I've had my w108 for 3 years now, and while it is not a daily driver, it's a nice weather driver. I bought a nice, well maintained car that needed engine work, but once I started looking at things I have found plenty of little things to fix. I always laugh when I see an ad that says "everything works", because I know how tiny the chance that it's true. A $3-4k w108 will give you a lot of trouble, it's worth buying a really good one for $8-10k, it will be cheaper in the long run.
The 4.5 has plenty of power, but expect 11-13 mpg. The AC will not be as cold as a new car, here in Texas I can drive it in ~100F weather only if I have all the AC vents blowing on me - even then it's barely adequate. There will be more body roll than in newer cars, I doubled the front swaybar which makes it acceptable. However I just love the looks and love driving it. I have thought of selling it a few times, but I just could not bring myself to do it.
The V8s use Bosch D-Jetronic electronic fuel injection, which works fine if everything is in good working order. It's an old system and some parts are hard to find, but not impossible. Some oeople convert to a modern programmable fuel injection, which likely gives better economy.

Oh, and I assume you'd have a backup vehicle :-)