I removed the injectors so that I can have them tested this week, but I thought I would show a few pics and ask a question or two. The test will tell me plenty I imagine, but wanted to see what yall thought based on pictures.
This week I removed, disassembled and cleaned up all 5 injectors. They were completely cleaned up, including bottom where needle pokes thru, as well as heat shield underneath.
First thing that is obvious, is that one of them has a smaller diameter heat shield. I'm assuming the large ones are correct. What would one smaller do?
Also, the most I drove this car after cleaning injectors was up the driveway to move it for awhile (smoked wildly), then back to what is becoming it's all too familiar spot. Upon removing injectors, the front two were wetter underneath,, but also cleaner. The back 3 were already fairly carboned-up. The closeup shows almost a burn pattern on the bottom. Is any of this normal. 4 injectors have 172 stamped on them. The front one had 170 stamped on it. Meaning???
If work isn't crazy tomorrow, I'm taking them for testing. let my fingers do the walking today, and have several places to choose from.
JL

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__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

You need all new heat shield/seals, they are only good for one use. The different sizes don't really mean anything.

The wet injectors are squirting instead of producing a nice cone of mist, they need new nozzles (I'd bet they all do, for that matter).

Carbon is a result of poor combustion, which you certainly had since it was smoking, could just be crapped out nozzles or could be low compression, and that could be from crappy nozzles.

The test will tell you, but I'm guessing low opening pressure and a combination of poor pattern and leaks, all from worn out nozzles. Cleaning won't fix that.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I can't remember if you ever told us what kind of smoke you were producung and what it smelled like. Do tell.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

R Leo,
The smoke is thick and doesn't dissipate. It smells heavily of diesel fuel, not a burned oil smell at all. Fuel mileage had gone from 22mpg down to 17mpg in 2 or 3 tanks.
Went by indy mechanic today, who also was Bousch authorized (per Yellow Pages). I called them and they test diesel injectors for $80 bucks. He ended up trying to talk me into compression test, then tuneup. $200 for compression test, $400 "or so" if full tuneup is necessary. Any injector testing/work was even more. Told them I would think about it, grabbed my 5 injectors and hit the door.
Believe it or not, ******** MB gave the cheapest quote on injector testing, at $40 or $50 bucks. But the guy had to go see if they still had machine to test them, which they did.
I can't decide whether to have them tested, just buy 5 new ones, or what. $ is a real issue, but I'm sure that's the case with most of us.
I'm open to suggestions.
Jimmy

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

With a strong diesel smell smoke, you definitely have a crapped-out injector. But, $50 to check them? That's highway robbery!

Here in Waterloo, Central Texas Diesel Injection Service does it for free...rebuilds them for $60-70-something I think...dunno if they use the good Bosch or bad Bosch nozzles.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Skip the compression test . If the daggone thing will start, chances are the compression is OK.

$400 plus injector work for a tune up? That's patently absurd. A full set of rebuilt injectors cost about that and that's practically all there is to a diesel 'tune-up'

My suggestion? Keep calling and find a place that will test those injectors for free. Confirm with a test which ones are hosed and have them rebuilt or, replace them. If money is no object, rebuild or replace all of them.

Remember to replace the nozzle heat shields too.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Jimmy-
you can buy a compression gauge for $200 and do the test yourself. It takes less than an hour to do all 5 cylinders from start to finish. Anything less than 215 I believe and you 've got a problem. I did a quick test on my '80 wagon and all cylinders hit 240, which people say is low, but the car runs great and produces very little smoke at start up, and next to none when warm. It was my first time testing a small automotive diesel, so the results my be on the low side due to my borrowed guage and testing methods. My injectors didn't look as bad as your bad three, but I went and pulled 4 from a 240D which looked better and the engine runs fine. I replaced the three worst looking ones. I reused the seals without a problem. I would think you need to do at least clean up your injectors (try a brass brush and solvent soak followed by a good airing out) by yourself and then it that doesn't work get them pop tested and cleaned by a pro or replaced. I can pull what looks like good injectors if you want- but give me a bit of time as Frances is putting everything on hold here for a bit. Get that stuff straight and then start looking at other causes as why your wagon is sick.
William

Compression is low, might be valves, might be rings. Have you adjusted the valves and checked the injection timing? I don't remember.

The price of owning an old Benz -- gets expensive when they do wear out.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I did not vacuum out the PCs. (what does PC stand for, by the way?) Very carboned-up it looked like down there. I could see tips of glow plugs, and then something else going accross the space in there. All carbon blackened. Valves have been adjusted 3 times, with the 3rd time making sure adjustment was a loose .1 and .3. I have no idea how to adjust injection timing. Guess I need to do some reading up on that, if that seems like a possibility.

I apologize for my whiney post above, I'm just whipped by this car, and by the angry woman I share a wedding ring with!
It amazes me that, considering the hampered functionality of 3 of my injectors prior to the rebuild, how little difference it made in the cars power.
Jimmy

*I guess if there is a silver lining here, it is that this is still easier than a couple of years ago when 'I' quit smoking. But I SAVED money doing that. half-hearted grin........

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

This thread is a continuation of this thread:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=101685

Jimmy, you should read the thread on injectors and nozzles made in india. Search: india nozzle
There is a good chance that if you took those rebuilt injectors to another shop for a free test they would tell you they need to be rebuilt again.

I say run a compression check, if your compression is not good you are throwing good money, effort, hope, after bad.

I bought a cheapo compression tester for $50 and a used good one for $30. I will combine the two as needed.

Don't throw money at the problem.

PC = Precombustion Chamber

The part you see below the glow plug in the PC is the ball pin. Not too sure the purpose of that thing but, as long as they aren't loose and rattling around inside the PC, they're OK.

White, 'raw' diesel smoke almost has to be a fuel-related issue. Are you still getting white smoke after replacing the injectors?


FWIW, twice since owning my cars, I've come across what I suspect was some really crappy diesel fuel. The symptoms were slow idle, bad, bad off-idle performance and, intermittently, HUGE clouds of black smoke. I dosed the tank with Power Servce both times but it literally took 3-4 tanks of fuel for the symptoms to completely subside. Mind you, this was diesel from a pump that caused this baloney, not some of the other concoctions that I've run through Marlene. So, if you haven't already done this, I suggest you go drive the car for 50-100 miles and see what happens. And, make absolutely sure you have good fuel; you might go ahead and run an additive like PowerService too.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

I posted this in the other thread, did you try running it on clean diesel?

You also could fill the filter with transmission fluid or something and see if it smokes while it is running on something other than diesel. This would not be an exact test and may not prove anything.