Anybody here using Red Line Water Wetter? I've used it before on gassers and found it helpful and was just wondering if it helps on diesels, too.

Since my radiator doesn't have a cap, can I just add it to the expansion tank, or will it not get circulated adequately that way?

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'81 300TD turbo <<sold 12/05 to another diesel nut

I put into my two MB diesels and a gas Chev Suburban. Seemed to make a difference and will use it again when needed.

It you live in Sacramento I highly doubt the temp will get high enough to require an additive. Plus if you look at the label you will see that for real effectiveness you have to add it to plain water or at the most 15% antifreeze mixture. If you have cooling issues this ain't gonna help.

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

And you, sir, have apparently not spent a summer in Sacramento!!!

Ummm, yeah looks like it's really tough to take....

http://www.cityrating.com/citytemperature.asp?City=Sacramento

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

Average temperatures can be quite misleading. Summer highs in Sacramento are frequently well over 100 degrees. 108-110 is not uncommon. 112-114 is not unheard of.
The average temperature in Anchorage, Alaska is 35.9. Doe that mean that folks in Alaska are wasting their money on antifreeze?

Sacramento has higher humidity than costal areas and the heat can feel stifling in the summer but don't neglect the fact that Sacramento people are often running up to the gold country or Reno NV or other places using the steep up hill grades near there. That is what water wetter is best for.
Oh yes, I use RedLine Diesel W/W in the '87 OM603 engine - I consider anything that can help protect my #14 head is cheap insurance!

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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

Waterwetter works better in plain water because plain water actually conducts heat better than antifreeze. The benefit of antifreeze (besides the obvious in cold weather) is that it raises the boiling point and it contains corrosion inhibitors. W/W is actually a soap-like product that inhibits the formation of bubbles on the hot metal surfaces (ever look at the bottom of a pan full of water that's about to boil...those same bubbles will form in your engine as the coolant approaches the boiling point) and the bubbles interfere with efficent heat transfer. The real benefit is when the cooling system is operating at or near max capacity so I think the claim of W/W lowering normal operating temp is very unlikely, at least if your thermostat is operating properly. In most cases your coolant never gets hot enough to show much of a difference at the gauge but I suspect it's very helpful where a small amount of corrosion in the cooling system creates a hot spot. I use it in my 603 to help protect my stock #14 head for exactly that reason.

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LRG
1987 300D Turbo 175K
2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul
1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold

Believe me fellas, it gets plenty hot here in Sacto. Tango is right that we routinely get temps of 110 and above. And as dieseldiehard so wisely notes, we do also have hills here -- large ones. In fact we call them mountains, and our travels often involve long pulls up miles of steep grades in summer heat. So we look for all the cooling advantages we can get.

As for the claim that humidity is greater here, I would dispute that. Certainly true in the winter when we get thick fog, but in the summer I bet coastal areas have more humidity due to the, um, coastal effect.

Now, returning to automotive matters...

Dieseldiehard also mentioned Redline "Diesel" W/W. Is there a separate product for diesel motors? Does it matter or is this just marketing?

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'81 300TD turbo <<sold 12/05 to another diesel nut

Diesel engines are prone to cavitation in the coolant, something to do with stresses, shock waves and harmonics. An additive is a good idea. I think that you can find information if you search for cavitation or SCA - supplemental coolant additive. I have never heard of this being a big problem on MB diesels but it is a standard precaution on many diesels. The Navistar 7.3 engines in Ford pickups often die from failures related to cavitation.

Cavitation is a strange concept. Best to think of it as a void on the inter-molecular level. Cavitations in force fields are one of the approaches to fusion reactions.

yes there is a diesel water wetter part # rl50289

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"NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!"

Cavitation happens whenever a tiny area is lowered in pressure (or raised in temperature) by an extreme amount, causing a bubble to form. Since the whole area is usually not that hot or low in pressure, the bubble isn't stable, and rapidly collapses, the collapse creates a powerful shockwave that can pit and destroy metal.

Centrifugal pumps are common victims of cavitation if their 'suction side' is being restricted. The pump keeps pulling, and if it can't get 'fed' fast enough, the pressure in the microscopic region behind the vanes of the pump can drop so low that the liquid there vaporizes (even if it is room temperature). The bubble hits the cooler, higher pressures around it, and rapidly contracts again, causing a 'pop' which you can actually hear, and which will slowly eat up the vanes on the pump. Thats why you always put valves AFTER centrifugal pumps, never before.

In coolant, cavitation can occur in places where a metal deposit traps a bit of liquid inside. The liquid, since it can't travel, rapidly heats up and boils. As soon as the expanding bubble hits the cooler liquid nearby, it collapses again. This rapid formation and collapse of microscopic bubbles pummels the metal, and literally blasts it into pieces. I've seen the results of cavitation, and it can be hard to imagine that it was done by tiny bubbles.

Incidentally, one interesting area of research right now is in the field of sonochemistry, where researchers are using focused beams of intense ultrasonic sound waves to create bubbles in liquid. Since a sound wave is a series of high and low pressure zones in a row, if you increase the intensity enough, the low pressure zones are so low that tiny bubbles form at the low pressure zones. When the bubbles collapse, the localized temperature at the center of the bubble is greater than the surface of the sun (which gives some insight as to why cavitation can cause so much damage).

Anyway, what that means for the need to use Water Wetter, I dunno.

peace,
sam

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"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

stopped because of a 'oil' like substance that formed in the over-flow tank. Read the comments on my page, MENU#17 contained in the 'aqua' colored frame.

Also read the thread for my car; thought that it was a head gasket but it was the WW!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?postid=116665

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Regards . . . . JimF
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'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Oh, you mean JELLO.
In Michigan, the stuff turns to pudding in the cold.

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Sam got me on this one as I'm not a scientist, but when you raise pressure you raise temp- agreed? Cavatation occurs in the marine field when water cannot fill the spaces where it would be when the force of speed at the prop or thru the water is applied. This force is pulling the water apart from itself, and of course not introducing anything to fill that void. Is the destruction caused by the pulling or by the water collapsing?