Well, I found out today I have good news and bad new. Good news is the MPG I experienced doing 80-85 is fairly normal.

I was informed by MB tech that their is nothing wrong with my car. He told me I was due a major service since the last was performed at 166K and it now has 184K.

This service includes ALL fluids and filters in the car and valve adjustment for under $400. Seem very reasonable given the cost of fluids and filters and he has been doing the work on this very car since 40K. Getting a nice very documented package from him about everything ever done. Very well maintained.

Here is something for you oil gurus. This machine has had a steady diet of Kendall 20-50 all its life. Injectors were pop test at 144K and all but one were in good condition. I have been told he has put ATF in fuel every 3 tank and swears by it to lube the injectors. He recommended an additative called Fuel On?? Anyone hear of this?

Steering is loose at higher speeds. I can move the steering with no change in direction. Is this gearbox or maybe ball joints and bushings?

And here is one that will blow everyone away. I ask him about washing the engine. He told me he does this regularly by using a degreaser call purple. Spays it on and CAR WASHES it off both in hot and cold modes and has NEVER in 20 years ever had a problem. The only caution he had was regarding the intake hose. Told me to be extremely careful no water got in this.

First time in my life I had to go search for Diesel sites in my hometown of Fort Walton Beach. It was an experience. Seems I have three choices. Local dealers Amoco and Chevron. Or a 20 mile hike to I-10 to get truck stop quality.

I was also told NOT to change motor oils. I really wanted to change to Chevron Delco but I am told the cleaner could do things to this high mileage motor that could be bad. Anyone had any bad experiences changing oil brands? Would be nice to hear from you.

My project continues.

Later all,

David

85 300DT 184K

Steering box, loosen the locknut (19MM) you will probably need a breaker bar for this as its very tight (from the factory). then get a 19MM wrench and hold the bolt while the 6MM hex turns the screw OUT to make tighter. Do this a few times and drive it around the block to see how it feels. Good rule of thumb for me is its tight enough when the wheel still returns itself after making a turn.

I wash my engine with Gunk Engine Bright, works great. I wait until the engine has cooled atleast an hour before i spray it with cold water, I dont want to crack anything (yikes!).

Any diesel station will do, IMHO. I fill up where its the cheapest, I never had a problem ($1.269).

I have changed between many oils in my car with ZERO problems. The car leaks just as much as it did when i got it (what diesel dont?) and uses ZERO OIL. I have used:

Shell Rotella
Mobil Delvac
Chevron Delo
Mobil-1 Synthetic

My 300D REALLY LIKES Mobil-1. It is quieter and peppier, and does not "roar" at high speed like it did, i was amazed.


John

I went with the Delo 400 upon purchasing my '85 300D and ended up having to replace the "o" rings on the oil return line from the air filter housing to the oil pan and while I was in there I replaced the "o" rings and gaskets on the return line from the turbo. At 225k miles I have absolutely no oil leaks and I do not use enough to matter betweent the 3k mile oil changes. I will say too, that I have had to replace ALOT of the rubber components under the hood - especially the ones that had been exposed to any oil.

__________________
Jim

I changed all the cars to mobile 1, including the ancient 220D in spite of the oil consumption (I won't mention how much!) for the following reasons:

Vastly better starting -- it can get cold in the winter here in S. Indiana and the 220 needs all the help it can get (including the tank heater).

Better mileage -- at least a few percent.

Much better turbo response -- my brother just put Mobil 1 in his 87 300SDL, with the result that the turbo comes on at about 1000 rpm now, and spins somewhat faster. It is now audible in the car and goes supersonic under load like my Volvo (which sounds like a police siren). Also, synthetics will not coke in the turbo and should give much longer life.

Seems to have freed up the rings in the 220 and upped the compression some (I've not tested it)

Drawbacks are higher cost if you still change it too often (7500 miles between changes is fine, you cannot wear it out), more leaks if you have any as it is "thinner" than petroleum based oil at low temp (thicker at high temp!), and sometimes more oil consumption due to lower viscosity in worn engines. Less smoke when it burns, though..... They will clean the engine up, so expect to change filters every oil change for a while to cope with the crud.

The problem with shrinking rubber seals one hears about was solved 25 or more years ago.

I asked a lubrication engineer about synthetic oils a couple years ago while working on a additive project for him, and his comment was that synthetics are simply vastly better lubricants by any measure.

Don't put lubricating oils in the fuel to "lube" the injection pump -- use a good diesel fuel conditioner like RedLine or Diesel Purge, or Shell's, or Chevron's. Motor oils or ATF usually contain things like zinc stearate, which turns into zinc oxide when burned, and zinc oxide is a nice polishing agent -- will polish the honing out of a cylinder bore, for instance. The cam in the IP is lubricated with engine oil anyway.

Diesel fuels vary much more than gasoline, and some engines are more sensitive than others. Buy whatever runs the best, and add fuel conditioner, especially if you are driving a Rabbit or Volvo Diesel -- the VE type pumps are very sensitive to low sulfur fuel (as I found out......)

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

psfred,

i too have a 300SDL. did your brother's car have any valve noise? like a stuck lifter? mine does, and have not yet converted to synthetic but plan to. if the engine had valvetrain noise did synthetic take care of it?

John

No, no valve train noise -- nearly perfect car. Synthetic may and may not fix a sticky lifter, would depend on why it is stuck.

If it is crudded up, it might, but if it is leaking or scored, no change.

I am assuming you are talking about the 87 300SDL -- if you have valve noise in an older engine, it needs valve adjustment or repair as they do not not have hydraulic valve adjusters.


Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Yes i was referring to my 300SDL. how many miles does his have? I have talked to many mechanics about my lifter noise and they say its a common trait of the 6cyl 3.0L 603 engine with age. They say it does not hurt anything, and I cant say I see or feel any differences. They say it annoys me more than it bothers the engine.

But i would still like to get rid of it because its a little embarrasing to pull up and hear this diesel knocking away (besides the other diesel clatter, ofcourse).

John

John:

Sam has about 135000 on his 300SDL. No lifter noise, but I will check with my mechanic/parts supplier tomorrow -- had to buy a mirror for the 300E.

I am going to buy a "repair special" 87 300D Turbo tomorrow (needs engine work!) that uses the same engine, so will be taking it apart later. Should be able to tell you more then.

Can you describe the noise? I assume it is not injector knock in the usual disguises (there are a couple distinctive injector sounds).

A sticking injector or low compression will sound almost like someone is tapping on the vavle cover with a small hammer that almost rings, or classic rod knock in a gasoline engine (clank).

They can also "snort" like an old Mack or Cummins with fixed injection timing, or rattle like a Ford Powerstroke, for example.

I would rule out injector noise by having the offending nozzle checked before I suspected a lifter.

Does the sound change if you loosen the injector line, hence stopping the injection for that cylinder (14mm wrench, don't overtighten)?

A collapsed lifter usually clicks rather than knocks, and a sticking vavle will sort of "snap" or clack, different sound than an injector.

Anything else should make the engine idle roughly, too.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter

It sounds like someone is hitting a hammer inside the valve cover. Like a hollow thud. It is kinda intermittent.

I drive for about 2 hours, stop at a rest stop, and while idling it will gradually re-appear within a minute. Some days you dont hear it at all. Car runs great, has smooth idle, great power. No oil burning. No other problems other than this.

John

John:

Sounds like an injector to me, not a lifter. Switch to a good synthetic (if you notice, they are the only oils at the auto parts stores actually rated for turbocharged diesel use) and see what happens.

I'd also get some RedLine or similar diesel treatment and see if that helps, too. Put the entire bottle in a fresh tank of fuel. If it does, but the problem comes back you many have a bad injector nozzle.

Diesels are amazing -- they will run and run and run. Some idle knock is to be expected -- some engines do and some don't, and some fuels are worse than others. I'd only really get excited if you also have a rough idle or excessive smoke or power loss.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I've found that Texaco's diesel fuel runs noticably better and less smoke from the exhaust than any other brand.

__________________
Michael H
1986 300D W124 5-spd manual 250k miles

John:

I checked with my mechanic yestereday, and he said that you may indeed have a bad lifter -- he replaced them all the time. Easier on the gasoline engines, though....... no need to remove the camshaft.

By all means, try Mobil 1 or another synthetic oil. It might just cure the problem without replacing the lifter.

If it doesn't, you will eventually have to bite the bullet and get it changed.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter,

Thanks for checking with your mechianic for me, I appreciate it. Would these bad lifters cause engine damage? Or would I just be replacing them for my own gratification? Like I said, I have no performance issues, great power, no smoke, easy starting, a perfect engine, except for lifer noise. Also, approximately how much would this cost?

John

John:

What you hear is the camshaft lobe hitting the tappet, which is too low (sounds just like excessive lash on an all mechanical system). Won't hurt much except that the affected vavle isn't opening far enough. If it is the intake, you will have low compression in that cylinder and get injector knock and loss of power eventually.

If it is the exhaust, you will get poor cylinder purging, just like exccess EGR -- lots of smoke and rattle from poor combustion.

The kicker is that these cars simply do not smoke -- the trap oxidizer or catalyst (you do have the trap oxidizer removed, don't you?) removes the smoke. My "new" 87 300DT doesn't smoke at all, and it has a cracked head and probably worn cylinders -- #4 knocks something horrible and it shakes really hard (only 4.5 cylnders working) at idle. Starts a dream and runs fine on the highway......!

I would change it, but I'm a purist.

Lifter is about $40 or so, but it will take an hour or two of shop time to replace since the camshaft has to come out. More if the cam is bad or you need to replace more than one.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!