A/C - help trouble shooting, fixing - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vstech · #31 04-30-2010, 09:49 PM

the only "illegal" refrigerants are the propane mixtures out there, and they are legal in some states.
R12 is not Illegal, it's production is.
there are HUGE quantities available, and reclaimed and old stock is totally legal for use.

69shovlhed · #32 04-30-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

It is obvious that you have not read the Mercedes Benz Factory Shop Manual for Air Conditioning... your answers make that clear... crystal ball clear in fact.

If I had a leak that small....which I did in my 81 TD ... I would use an electronic leak detector to find a leak in the evaporator. Since air is being forced across that whole area it works great... even better than most other areas which are out in the open.

didn't need to read the manual. WIS is the mb service program for dealer techs. it has everything they've ever put out since like '91 to service their cars. sounds like they've always had problems with crappy evaporators. the 140's were the worst, just about every one of those turds needed at least 1 evap replacement. we found that they would blow out big time; it was generally obvious when the evap was bad. it very well could be the pag oil which we smelled, but bottom line, you can frequently smell it when the evap is toast. but what does this have to do w/ the original post? yeah he may have an evap leak, but how is he gonna find out if he don't fill it up and check it out?
there are hundreds of dealer techs that do it the same way i do. that's where i got this procedure from, and it works good.
and i've not once seen dye clogging any part of the system on hundreds of cars over a 10 year period. thems the facts, jack.

leathermang · #33 05-01-2010, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69shovlhed

yeah he may have an evap leak, but how is he gonna find out if he don't fill it up and check it out?

there are hundreds of dealer techs that do it the same way i do.

The EPA prescribes a method to check potential leaking AC systems in automobiles.

It does not want idiots just filling AC systems which are probably leaking and checking back in a month to see if it is still leaking... as you suggest you and your cohorts did on a regular basis.

The EPA authorized procedure involves pressurizing the system with Nitrogen and four ounces of R22. Testing under pressure is more reliable than only using the holding of vacuum since it puts the o-rings and everything else in the same mode which it will be used in. The EPA provided this procedure and made it legal to VENT that R22/Nitrogen into the air after the test to keep lazy or uninformed people from just charging up the AC and watching it unnecessarily leak out.

So the bottom line is that you and those other techs you claim do the same thing have been wasting refrigerant, wasting the time and perhaps money of your customers, and violating EPA regs by not doing a legit check of those AC systems before installing refrigerant.

" If a thousand techs do a stupid lazy thing.. it is still a stupid lazy thing. " - paraphrase of a famous saying.

69shovlhed · #34 05-01-2010, 08:45 AM

not wasting time or money. like i said, we don't charge them twice for the evac and recharge. but i guess if we did this nitrogen/r22 test, we'd have to charge them extra for that, and if the leak was very small, it might take hours to find it, if it could be found at all.
that would be a waste of their time and money.
clearly, you spend more time reading about fixing cars than actually doing it. and seem to have some kind of self esteem problem that drives you to insult others. all i was trying to do was give the man some advice. now you call me stupid and lazy. try working as a flat rate tech and see how long you could handle it. stupid, lazy people would starve, cause they'd be paying for all the parts they broke or mis-diagnosed, and they wouldn't turn any hours. i bet you work in an office.

leathermang · #35 05-01-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69shovlhed

bs, dude.

With me quoting AC industry wide accepted logical frugal advice based on the MERCEDES FACTORY SHOP MANUAL and the EPA rules and sites like Aircondition.com and ACkits.com and three Air conditioning manuals used in school training classes you start your reply with that...

I admit that aside from your total lack of regard for anything except your time in relation to the flat rate manual that there is clearly a generation gap shown by your attitude and writing style.

That was interesting that you would falsely assume that using Nitrogen and R22 would be a time consuming process when in fact it is almost instantaneous read at the vents with the electronic sniffer. Also, your willingness to ignore your customer having to return later if the refrigerant leaked out.. .at which point you were in the same situation as you started EXCEPT for the LOSS of the refrigerant... but you consider the fact that you do not charge for the second evacuation and charge the redeeming fact.

I have to thank you for being so honest in your answers... you have volunteered way more than I could have ever hoped for in pointing out the difference in value judgments between Owners taking care of their own prized cars and the potential for ' values' other than long range reliable and frugal service to be applied to those cars.... the FLAT RATE MANUAL and its relationship to YOUR paycheck being the obvious one highlighted by you, 69shovlhed.

I have admitted before that I have a bias towards knowing and following the rules. From 18-22 I was an Army Aviator flying a UH-1H Huey including all of 1969 in Viet Nam. Part of that year I was the night test pilot in the maintenance section. Since 1980 I have had my Permanent Peace Officer license in Texas and have worked as both a Deputy Constable and Deputy Sheriff at various times. I have been a welder and farm mechanic for years... So knowing and following the rules in my life could have made the difference between being here and NOT... I am proud to say I have vision in both eyes and all my fingers and toes intact and am mobile.... so you lose on the ' office ' bet. And in 74-75 era I rode my new Superglide shovelhead to SWT in San Marcos from Austin before transferring to UT Austin....

69shovlhed · #36 05-01-2010, 04:04 PM

i see i've miss judged you. my bad. i guess you were offended by my "bs, dude" comment. please accept my apology. however, the customer will return at his next scheduled maintenance interval anyway. if the leak is so small it can't be found w/ uv dye during the initial inspection, when the customer returns there will most assuredly be dye at the point of leakage, if there has been enough leakage to cause the ac system to stop functioning. many times the leak is so small that you won't be able to find it. if i can't find the leak, should i leave the system empty, or let the customer drive in comfort? i don't care what you've read about ac dye, in the real world it works excellent. your nitrogen test might be excellent, but i've never heard of any shop or dealer using it.
i have to make a living. i'm damn sure not getting rich doing it. but when that car goes out the shop's door, it needs to be fixed so that the customer is happy and safe. i did that for almost 30 years. i am truly impressed by your service in nam. not so much by you being a cop. you may be a good one, but alot of em are liars, bullies, and just plain corrupt. but never mind that. since you can weld, you ever chop that superglide?